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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:28 am

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Last edited by Cut Chemist on Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:43 pm; edited 17 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:53 am

1/Ok but 1000 range seems big ^^ how fast the branch will travel? Is obito will be able tomove while the branch travels?

2/ok

3/Isn't that mana absorb a little bit low? 175 max mana and if you can keep him in range. Moreover your skills don't use much mana. I know you have a good silence with it but you also still have range limits. Why not combine Hp/Mana absorb and higher the numbers?

4/Damage reflected included magical, spell damage? or only physical?
So anywhere on the map really means anywhere??? no limits? you can even tp in fog of war in middle of ennemy base?
Change channelling spell to cast time, coz if someone break it, it will reset cooldown and cost mana like sasuke Kirin because while 6/5/4 seconds, you have much chance to waste 175/200/225 mana AND 100/80/60 cd.

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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:49 am

Hm, Im not gonna say a lot about numbers, just the concept - too many wood techniques, i think it would be better to concentrate on abilities which are unique to him and him only (have 1 wood technique at the very maximum).

It is certainly worth including his fire jutsu into the build i think as it is combined with his eye technique which makes it special


3rd spell: I like the concept of this spell which steals mana, but does it rly suit this build? It's not like the mana requirements are that high for his spells and stats are relatively okay

About ult: Meh the passive does seem a bit dodgy as you've stated yourself...about the teleportation - i personally think 6 seconds casting only to be teleported to a certain point on the map is too much, i would put a constant value like 3.5 - 4 seconds casting
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:42 pm

I don't get at all the first spell. It's like Anko's first spell but the pull is from caster to target? It's very interesing if it works in this way.

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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:42 pm

muzk wrote:
I don't get at all the first spell. It's like Anko's first spell but the pull is from caster to target? It's very interesing if it works in this way.


Yes, it works kinda like a reverse Pudge hook, where the spell pulls Obito to the target if it hits.


GodScream wrote:
1/Ok but 1000 range seems big ^^ how fast the branch will travel? Is obito will be able tomove while the branch travels?

2/ok

3/Isn't that mana absorb a little bit low? 175 max mana and if you can keep him in range. Moreover your skills don't use much mana. I know you have a good silence with it but you also still have range limits. Why not combine Hp/Mana absorb and higher the numbers?

4/Damage reflected included magical, spell damage? or only physical?
So anywhere on the map really means anywhere??? no limits? you can even tp in fog of war in middle of ennemy base?
Change channelling spell to cast time, coz if someone break it, it will reset cooldown and cost mana like sasuke Kirin because while 6/5/4 seconds, you have much chance to waste 175/200/225 mana AND 100/80/60 cd.


#1. 1,000 range... at level 4. The branch should travel about as fast a Pudge's hook in Dota.

#3. Doesn't use mana? His 2nd spell has a mana upkeep to it and it helps when it comes to picking off heroes. The mana drain is low, because I was worried about balance issues due to the spell silencing a target if Obito is nearby. Anyway, buffed mana drain to 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 every second, but reduced duration to 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 seconds. In addition I increased the mana upkeep for the 2nd spell.

#4. Casting time change done. Limits can always be added whether it is not allowing the hero to teleport into an opposing team's base or what ever. And yes the passive component applies to both spells and attacks.

Westfield wrote:
Hm, Im not gonna say a lot about numbers, just the concept - too many wood techniques, i think it would be better to concentrate on abilities which are unique to him and him only (have 1 wood technique at the very maximum).

It is certainly worth including his fire jutsu into the build i think as it is combined with his eye technique which makes it special.


3rd spell: I like the concept of this spell which steals mana, but does it rly suit this build? It's not like the mana requirements are that high for his spells and stats are relatively okay

About ult: Meh the passive does seem a bit dodgy as you've stated yourself...about the teleportation - i personally think 6 seconds casting only to be teleported to a certain point on the map is too much, i would put a constant value like 3.5 - 4 seconds casting

The map already has a rather alarming number of heroes that have fire techniques and I felt it necessary for Obito to be different from Itachi, Sasuke and Madara by not giving him the standard Uchiha fire technique. If you want him to have that spell perhaps you can make a young Obito suggestion or something. I thought about adding the fire techinque he uses in conjunction with Kamui, but ruled against it because it simply didn't fit into the build. Either way, I feel the hero still lies with Obito's fighting style, since the build employees two Wood techniques, as Obito largely relies upon the 1st Hokage's DNA to live; a sharingan tecnique that really is two for one, if you think about it; and the Chakra Chains technique is actually a Rinnegan technique. So, I feel as if I am fairly in line with the character's theme.

A possible middle ground could be that when Obito dodges and reflects damage he uses Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance to harm the target. What do you think?



#3. The spell has two function, one which is to silence an opponent, the other is to drain them of their mana. As I mentioned above I have changed the 2nd spell, increasing the upkeep of mana, I have also increased the mana drain for this spell, making it a more potent ganking tool. Perhaps I can make it drain the same amount of mana from a target and make it so that drained mana is converted into mana and HP for Obito.

#4. I only made that statement about the passive because I felt odd about including a survival spell to the hero, that can already teleport globablly. It's only 6 seconds at level 1 and I feel that the time is necessary because of the spell's incredible strength.



Edit: Added an alternate version of the ultimate, I'm contemplating whether or not I want to make the tree/unit walking effect work like Slark's passive component of his ultimate.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:44 pm

Quote :
The map already has a rather alarming number of heroes that have fire techniques and I felt it necessary for Obito to be different from Itachi, Sasuke and Madara by not giving him the standard Uchiha fire technique. If you want him to have that spell perhaps you can make a young Obito suggestion or something. I thought about adding the fire techinque he uses in conjunction with Kamui, but ruled against it because it simply didn't fit into the build. Either way, I feel the hero still lies with Obito's fighting style, since the build employees two Wood techniques, as Obito largely relies upon the 1st Hokage's DNA to live; a sharingan tecnique that really is two for one, if you think about it; and the Chakra Chains technique is actually a Rinnegan technique. So, I feel as if I am fairly in line with the character's theme.

A possible middle ground could be that when Obito dodges and reflects damage he uses Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance to harm the target. What do you think?

Nah the only characters which have fire techniques are Nibi, Madara, Sandaime, Jiraya which isnt a lot, especially taking into the account how common they look between each other (sandaime's fire and madara's first). So a different fire jutsu concept would greatly increase the map's quality in terms of skill variation and personal interest because ultimately people play this map because of its link to the anime. In terms of aos concept, NWU will always be inferior to Dota for example

No point in making young obito, because he couldn't use that specific fire technique at that age. But of course its understandable that it wouldn't fit into this build. Anyway, my point is that it would be a shame not to see that spell in the map, those tree techniques are good, as well as the chakra link (i would rename it though Smile )
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:05 pm

looks nice strange skills Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:26 pm

Still i dont fully understand the ult concept, so basically as soon as you lvl it up you'll get 2 spells instead of 1?
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:24 am

Westfield wrote:


Nah the only characters which have fire techniques are Nibi, Madara, Sandaime, Jiraya which isnt a lot, especially taking into the account how common they look between each other (sandaime's fire and madara's first). So a different fire jutsu concept would greatly increase the map's quality in terms of skill variation and personal interest because ultimately people play this map because of its link to the anime. In terms of aos concept, NWU will always be inferior to Dota for example.



Still i dont fully understand the ult concept, so basically as soon as you lvl it up you'll get 2 spells instead of 1?

Last I checked the map had a total of 8 heroes that use fire spells. So, it's not the small number you list. Also, we should strive to be as good as Dota in terms of making the game's mechanics and balance as good as possible. Saying that you'll always be inferior to Dota isn't an attitude for improvement.

The first version of the ultimate has two functions; an active global TP and a passive chance to dodge damage. The operate independently of each other.
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:25 pm

Bump.

Here are my thoughts for an alternative Skill build for those that are worried the hero has too many wood spells. Thoughts?

#1. Becomes Chakra Chains, that essentially do the same thing as right now, might change some stuff.

#2. Stays the same, if I get rid of the mana drain from chakra chains this spell will no longer have a mana-upkeep. It will just last for x seconds.

#3. Becomes Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance or Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment, either spell will fulfill the same role of being a debilitating short range, single target, spell.

#4. I'm leaning towards the 2nd version of the ultimate.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Can you combine Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment and Katon somehow?
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:13 am

I combined them, check what happens when you use Battle Encampment while Kamui is applied to Obito.

Here's the 2nd variation to the build. Chakra Chains replaced the wood spell, and Battle Encampment now is a trap spell, works like Disruptor's Kinetic field. Finally, Kamui now boost the power of Obito's spells.


Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:19 am

Looks good, even though chakra chains's silence is ridiculously low, only good for disrupting casting (without ult boost that is).

I like the way how you used barrier and katon, looks nice

Although it kinda feels as if you've put quite a lot of effects into the ult
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:39 am

Westfield wrote:
Looks good, even though chakra chains's silence is ridiculously low, only good for disrupting casting (without ult boost that is).

I like the way how you used barrier and katon, looks nice

Although it kinda feels as if you've put quite a lot of effects into the ult

Well, 3.0 second silence is actually quite strong, even going by Dota standards.

I might have to make it so that the MS, treewalking and unit walking only lasts for part of the spell's duration to balance it.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:42 am

Well if we gonna compare it to Dota, Balanar's single target silence lasts for 5 seconds on level 1, while Trax's silence which is Aoe spell lasts for 3 seconds. On last levels their durations differ significantly from the ones you've presented. I think it would be quite reasonable to increase it because a) its a single target b) it only applies on a condition of <40% MP
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:26 pm

Westfield wrote:
Well if we gonna compare it to Dota, Balanar's single target silence lasts for 5 seconds on level 1, while Trax's silence which is Aoe spell lasts for 3 seconds. On last levels their durations differ significantly from the ones you've presented. I think it would be quite reasonable to increase it because a) its a single target b) it only applies on a condition of <40% MP

The example of Balanar is an exception; to balance his silence's duration, which is much longer at night, during the day it is very weak. In this case we're dealing with a spell that not only can silence a target but manaburns as well, so the duration is more than fine, imo.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:51 pm

alright, anyway on wiki it says that the name of the technique of chakra chains came from the "Outer Path" so change the name to Gedo: Chakra Chains or Rinnegan: Chakra Chains or Outer Path: Chakra Chains
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:43 am

The battle encampment skill is single target or is aoe, if is the second one wont be kinda initiation skill rather than dissabling one?

Even though everything is nice
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Cut I think you just copy/pasted the last bit about damage from the fire dance, so re scale it
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Having looked at Obito as he is now, I'll say that the current cast range of his second spell which is 400 is quite low, in comparison to Dota's Disruptor for example. The way he is now, you'll be able to use only one way of initiation so to speak, which is using his first spell to dive into battle and then put up a barrier to entrap enemies or whatever. This doesnt work vice versa which I believe is very important for Obito in order to work well with his ganking/initiating role.

PS Dota's disruptor field's cast range is 900, even though he is ranged.

PSS Also change his name to Obito Uchiha or something, I mean it is quite clear now that Tobi is a "mask" name and his model exposes him to those people who dont read manga
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:13 pm

Westfield wrote:
Having looked at Obito as he is now, I'll say that the current cast range of his second spell which is 400 is quite low, in comparison to Dota's Disruptor for example. The way he is now, you'll be able to use only one way of initiation so to speak, which is using his first spell to dive into battle and then put up a barrier to entrap enemies or whatever. This doesnt work vice versa which I believe is very important for Obito in order to work well with his ganking/initiating role.

PS Dota's disruptor field's cast range is 900, even though he is ranged.

PSS Also change his name to Obito Uchiha or something, I mean it is quite clear now that Tobi is a "mask" name and his model exposes him to those people who dont read manga

He is ganker/disabler looks like init but he dont disable a group of enemys to call him inititator. So u are seeing obito from a bad point of view.

So what you need to take in count, is that his ultimate let him dive into enemys towers when he wanna gank he hold his enemys with his 1st and end the ganking job with his wall, with this i mean u can go with ultimate cast the flame wall and then hold the enemy if you want so the gank can be succesfull.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:04 pm

Yes that is true, but you're talking about the ult which has a greater cooldown than his first spell, therefore you're limiting the potential for another combo.

I can see people going dagger to avoid this, even if minor, uncomfortability. Its just like Chouji's entrap mechanism, but with just a little bit of "placement on the area" control
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:44 pm

If you have good aim you can use 1st 2nd and the ultimate the push is an extra touch to the combo since the slow is good.

You are thinking like there wont be people to try to hook some one from far away like dotas clock werk, thats the only thing that was based on clock.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:05 am

Quote :
If you have good aim you can use 1st 2nd and the ultimate the push is an extra touch to the combo since the slow is good.

Yes if you have good aim you can do that sure, but what Im suggesting is that being able to entrap first and then dive in through the first spell should also be possible. But it is gonna be very difficult to entrap enemies to allow for a good dive in on longer distances
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:38 pm

Westfield wrote:


Yes if you have good aim you can do that sure, but what Im suggesting is that being able to entrap first and then dive in through the first spell should also be possible. But it is gonna be very difficult to entrap enemies to allow for a good dive in on longer distances

The choice to give the trap spell shorter range than Disruptor's was on purpose. Why? Because Obito is capable of more burst damage, his trap spell actually deals damage (Disruptor's does not), and Disruptor is a far more fragile hero than Obito. The range to Disruptor's spell helps to make up for his relatively frail state.
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