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 [SM]Uchiha Obito

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GodScream
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:56 pm

55 max magical dps for 3 seconds (=165 dmg for a lvl 4 spell) + a slow for less than 1 second... that's incredibly low.
Increase the duration, the damage or the slow duration at least.


It will be a spell left useless like Deidara spiders if you don't nerf it
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:45 pm

GodScream wrote:
55 max magical dps for 3 seconds (=165 dmg for a lvl 4 spell) + a slow for less than 1 second... that's incredibly low.
Increase the duration, the damage or the slow duration at least.


It will be a spell left useless like Deidara spiders if you don't nerf it

What are you even talking about?


The initial spell Deals X damage a second to units within an aoe of Y. Then the ultimate adds...

After the barrier appears Obito unleashes Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance, this spell deals 100 / 150 / 200 magic damage over the barrier's duration and increases the damage taken by units within the area by 5% a second, stacking up to a total of 25%.

The hero should deal a ton of damage, if it was made close to the build.
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Natsu
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:28 pm

God scream is talking about the 3rd skill that doesnt deal so much damage, the dps is 55 a sec for 3 sec thats so low, but i think we cant really see obitos potential until the fire wall damage bug is fixed.
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GodScream
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:06 pm

Natsu wrote:
God scream is talking about the 3rd skill that doesnt deal so much damage, the dps is 55 a sec for 3 sec thats so low, but i think we cant really see obitos potential until the fire wall damage bug is fixed.

That's it... I understood the full potential of uchiha flame encampment (+ effect in ultimate which is quite impressing).

But, the problem is not with Katon spell but with Mokuton Spell:

the mokuton spell is left behind with so low damage (25/35/45/55 dps for 3 sec and slow effect (0.75sec). Even with the ulti boost to Mokuton, this spell is not that useful (12.5/17.5/22.5/27.5 dmg returned to ennemy if he attacks obito...).

I don't know the Effect yet combined with Katon spell but better increase the damage or Slowing duration or damage duration potential of Mokuton Spell coz only 75/105/135/165 dmg in 3 sec + 30% slow for 0.75 seconds for 12 sec CD spell, that's so low...
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:37 pm

Change Spell 2's ultimate effect so that the bonus damage taken % is a flat 10 / 15 / 20% for the entire duration.

Increase the DOT on #3 from 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 to 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 magic damage per second.

That should fix his damage problems.
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Natsu
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:14 am

So those bonuses are gain when he uses the ultimate if im not wrong?
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:28 am

Only the bonus damage taken, the chains applying to nearby units, and the 3rd spell dealing 1/2 of its current damage to an attacker (might want to add a CD to that aspect to prevent its damage return from being imba, maybe ~0.20 seconds).
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:36 pm

It just kinda feels like there is little difference between Chouji's entrap and Obito's entrap as the latter's version provides only a minor contro in regards to trapping/holding off and so on. Yes it deals damage, but still...
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:58 pm

Westfield wrote:
It just kinda feels like there is little difference between Chouji's entrap and Obito's entrap as the latter's version provides only a minor contro in regards to trapping/holding off and so on. Yes it deals damage, but still...

What is your point? Some abilities are similar, i.e. AM's blink vs. Qop's blink. The difference comes in how the heroes are played.
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:56 am

I can't add treewalking without providing terrainwalking, and terrain walking is "hard" (tedious) thing to work with. It's Because a unit can walk over anything, including "black terrain".

Maybe I can overcode this feature, but I think it's not the idea.

I can do it like DotA phase boots, but is known it has its problems too http://79.141.174.38/forums/showthread.php?t=1268672

So, if I do this like in DotA, bonus MS and unitwalk will stop after:
- ms duration
- cast of other spell (MS buff dispells after of other spell cast)*
And it's gonna have the same problem as Phase Boots.

*I've to test it more.

___________________________________________________________


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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Well, if you can't get the effect to work, you can remove it from the build.
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:29 pm

You might just make it like passing through the units, it is not like passing through the trees or whatever is a crucial part of the build.
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:28 pm

Okay so, considering he is a ganker / disabler or something, his spells require too much mana and because of his low Int gain, I think majority of players will try to ignore his ultimate, just to reduce the mana efficiency component. 

a) 130 mana for a spell which demands a fair deal of targetting, and more than that it has a range per level gain, so I dont see a reason of having 130 mana on first level. Scale it...but nevertheless reduce mana cost

b) Entrap, ok i can live with 100, but taking into the account his other spells, I would either leave this be, but increase cooldown or improve his Int stat so he can use it a bit more often.

c) 80 is fine, but once again, but once again I believe this MS slow is not going to be shown in any form because the push effect itself will take around a second, during which it will "disable" enemy heroes. So I would rather increase the slow duration

d) Like i said before again, the duration of the ultimate is low and not worth the mana. A similar thing may happen to this char as happened in NvB, where some chars are forced to prioritise "stats" spells so they can afford more time on / between lanes. And I'm pretty sure gankers shouldn't have major problems with mana. So that's something to think about
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:49 pm

I have no idea why you're posting here. The fact that he's in the beta, would mean you should post these concerns in said area. Not in the hero suggestion, which is already different compared to the one currently in the beta.

Edit:

#1. Manacost remains due to it being a powerful spell.

#2. Manacost reduced by 30.

#3. Duration of slow scaled to .75 / 1.00 / 1.25 / 1.50 seconds.

#4. Manacost scaled from 150 to 100 / 125 / 150; duration scaled from 5 / 7.5 / 10 seconds to 8 / 12 / 16 seconds. Note, MS bonus time remains the same.


In general, gankers that don't have Int as their primary attribute always have mana as a concern, which is why they get bottle and/or other items to help with their mana issues. Look at Dota's gankers such as Magnus, Pudge, Clockwerk, TA, etc. all of them have mana problems.


Last edited by Cut Chemist on Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:54 pm

How is he different in beta? I didn't compare yet, im judging him from this thread
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:02 pm

Westfield wrote:
How is he different in beta? I didn't compare yet, im judging him from this thread
Muzk couldn't code the ultimate the way I intended, as far as I heard, in addition to his spells not functioning like I said in the beta thread.


Quote :
Please be sure to fix the way Obito's flame spell works, so it works like Disruptor's spell, which allows the caster and his allies to move through the wall.
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:06 pm

Well that's a technical part of it and I'm having an issue with his stats, as he will fix those eventually
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:41 pm

Westfield wrote:
Well that's a technical part of it and I'm having an issue with his stats, as he will fix those eventually
The ultimate isn't going to be fixed, as the conversation before your post today indicated, the hero will be changed.

Base Int 16 -> 19
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Mere 3 point of Int which is like what 75 mana or something? I dont think that's enough frankly speaking. At the very least it should be equal to his Str lvl gains
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:16 pm

Westfield wrote:
Mere 3 point of Int which is like what 75 mana or something? I dont think that's enough frankly speaking. At the very least it should be equal to his Str lvl gains

No. 3 points of int gives him an extra 39 mana at level 1, since one point of int gives you 13 mana. Additionally, I've already reduced mana costs on 2 of his abilities.

The mana required for his combo, at level 6, went from 460 (130 + 100 + 80 + 150) to 380. That's quite a large drop, combined with the increase to his starting mana pool.
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [SM]Uchiha Obito   Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:31 pm

I've had a look at the build with some of the mana / duration number changes so i guess it should cut it
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