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 [SM] Killer B

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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: [SM] Killer B   Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:39 pm

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Last edited by Cut Chemist on Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:00 pm; edited 8 times in total
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GodScream
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:11 pm

1/Why not? im not big fan of the physical damage reduced but that should work fine

2/Mehh, with unlimited mana, this skill makes bee the fastest character ingame permamently. If this skill has a duration, i wouldn't mind it but you will do the same mistake as kisame's heal... But with a MS boost. + the numbers are too high.
You're making critics on a dash stun on 3 seconds but you're giving away a skill which allows a 32% MS boost combined to an MS slow. 32% MS boost means (300 base ms + 70 classic idate + 10% shuko = about 410 MS when not using that skill, adding your 32%, you have 540 MS as long as your mana allows it....)

3/I understand you want mana regen for synergy with 1st and 2nd skill but he's not supposed to be intelligence or agility. I talk about agility coz of the bonus damage every 5 hits, looks like more an agi skill than a STR. And i talk about intelligence coz focusing too much on your spells while you're supposed to be STR semi-carry doesn't fit to the character.

4/Target unit or terrain?? need vision or not? The manacost is a bit low for a dash which deal that much damage combined with an incredible range.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:40 pm

GodScream wrote:
1/Why not? im not big fan of the physical damage reduced but that should work fine

2/Mehh, with unlimited mana, this skill makes bee the fastest character ingame permamently. If this skill has a duration, i wouldn't mind it but you will do the same mistake as kisame's heal... But with a MS boost. + the numbers are too high.
You're making critics on a dash stun on 3 seconds but you're giving away a skill which allows a 32% MS boost combined to an MS slow. 32% MS boost means (300 base ms + 70 classic idate + 10% shuko = about 410 MS when not using that skill, adding your 32%, you have 540 MS as long as your mana allows it....)

3/I understand you want mana regen for synergy with 1st and 2nd skill but he's not supposed to be intelligence or agility. I talk about agility coz of the bonus damage every 5 hits, looks like more an agi skill than a STR. And i talk about intelligence coz focusing too much on your spells while you're supposed to be STR semi-carry doesn't fit to the character.

4/Target unit or terrain?? need vision or not? The manacost is a bit low for a dash which deal that much damage combined with an incredible range.

#2. MS #'s for B reduced to 6 / 12 / 8 / 24%, AoE of the slow reduced to 175, and the initial mana cost increased to 60.

#3. The mana regen is flat, meaning it's only useful for a hero like him that has crap base int and growth. Most Int heroes have decent or good growth, meaning flat regen bonuses aren't strong for them. Your thoughts on dealing a bonus X damage every Y attacks make no sense. There is no hard and fast rule that says a spell like this should be on an agility hero, let alone that part of the reason this spell works is because Killer B's base agility and growth are decent. I don't want him to be a hard carry, so the main attribute is strength for balance. Even if you build agility/IAS items you need to worry about damage as well.

#4. The spell says target, so it is a single target spell. The spell will give vision of the target, however, not if the target is invis. Manacost increased to 200 / 250 / 300.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:23 am

this bee looks very interesting nice job

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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:52 am

@Spec, every suggestion looks fine for you Razz

@chemist
The more i think about that spell, the more im keep saying to myself it have good potential but can be too overpowered...
Also, having an heroe who's going around with black vision on him while that spell active doesn't allow you to see inside clearly (like for nida ulti), which gives another + to the spell.

Moreover, it really reminds me too much of kisame bubble but without damage, with lotta MS increase on user, lower AOE, much more MS lowering on ennemies.
Maybe u can ajust it like that...

[quote="Cut Chemist"]
Quote :
#2. Ink Creation



Description: Killer B creates ink around him, increasing his move speed, while lowering the move speed of his enemies.

Mechanics: Launches an ink wave/pulse all around Bee in an area of 225/250/275/300 units, every ennemy hitted by the wave will get a MS reduction while Bee will have his MS enhanced.

Mana Cost: 80
CD: 10/9/8/7 seconds


Lvl 1. Slows units by 10%, increases Killer Bee's move speed by 6% for 3 seconds

Lvl 2. Slows units by 14%, increases Killer Bee's move speed by 12% for 3 second

Lvl 3. Slows units by 18%, increases Killer Bee's move speed by 18% for 3 seconds

Lvl 4. Slows units by 22%, increases Killer Bee's move speed by 24% for 3 seconds


Or you keep your "permanent" spell which takes mana per sec (like kisame heal) but you should really lower dwn Bee's MS at about max 12-15% since you already slow ennemies within aoe with a lot of MS reduction. Even with a 22% MS reduction + a 12-15% MS increase, your ennemy shouldn't be able to go away from you (except stuns, spells all that kindof stuff). The risk with that kinda spell, is to see ppl rushing through mana build stuff and easily abusing with it.

I may add it in my own Killer B suggestion instead of ink clones if you allow it Smile It will fits also since, i have a kimi 1st spell like + a gai passive like with a lariat bit different from yours in my suggestion.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 pm

@at scream well maybe but this got nice icons and spells Surprised and im really tired of the suggest.... so GET THE HEROS ON

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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:35 pm

GodScream wrote:


The more i think about that spell, the more im keep saying to myself it have good potential but can be too overpowered...

Also, having a hero who's going around with black vision on him while that spell active doesn't allow you to see inside clearly (like for nida ulti), which gives another + to the spell.

Moreover, it really reminds me too much of kisame bubble but without damage, with lotta MS increase on user, lower AOE, much more MS lowering on ennemies.

Or you keep your "permanent" spell which takes mana per sec (like kisame heal) but you should really lower dwn Bee's MS at about max 12-15% since you already slow ennemies within aoe with a lot of MS reduction. Even with a 22% MS reduction + a 12-15% MS increase, your enemy shouldn't be able to go away from you (except stuns, spells all that kindof stuff). The risk with that kinda spell, is to see ppl rushing through mana build stuff and easily abusing with it.


I have no idea what you're saying for half of that reply. As to your your suggestion, nope. I don't like it. There is no reason to drastically change the spell, only thing that needs to be happen is re-scaling of the ms buff. Why? Because enemies already have to be at melee range in order to be slowed and they should be punished for being at melee range against this hero. If you are an enemy you may still cast spells or attack Killer B during the time it takes from him to move to you, further delaying him and using up even more of his precious mana supply. Also, everyone is really underestimating the mana cost of the spell. The initial cost is 60 mana, along with a 32 mana per second upkeep at max level. If B chooses to combo his spells the player will have to closely watch his mana supply or else he will quickly be out of mana, rendering him unable to stay mobile in teamfights.

MS buff to B rescaled to 6 / 9 / 12 / 15%.

As a trade off to the rescale. Initial mana cost lower as well as upkeep.

Mana Cost: 50
Mana upkeep: 8 / 14 / 20 / 26
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:38 pm

That's right for vs range heroes arguments (though you have lariat Razz) Anyway the way it is now with numbers and manacost should be fine and more balanced.

The only (-) in this suggestion is that spells are a little bit too much focused on intel/chakra regen. But Everything else works fine Smile


@Spec, i am also eager to see new heroes but i am not the master chief in coding here ^^ I was also eager to see new heroes but since last summer, i realized that it's not that easy
working and having time on a WC3 custom map + where you can have much noobs...

Muzk has his own life and i respect him. I just hope he can give us the best he can in this map I and many other ppl appreciate playing
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:24 pm

The spells are hardly focused on mana regen. You need only pick up basic mana items and you're set, unless your plan is to run around with his Ink Creation spell on all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:16 am

Cut Chemist wrote:
The spells are hardly focused on mana regen. You need only pick up basic mana items and you're set, unless your plan is to run around with his Ink Creation spell on all the time.

Thats what i fear Razz but now i with 15% instead 32%, it really balances that ms bonus Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:54 pm

idc even about heros and stuff but the map must be balanced. other way he will lose more ppl.. >.> im only guy her whos keeping this nwu comunity alive and by gaming. i got faith in MZK may the power be with you Mad

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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:52 pm

yea number 1 issure for a map is it HAS to be balanced mostly or will lose people FAST. and screw that spec NWU would DIE without my presence too
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:35 pm

The distribution of NWU died when NWU1 went offline. The original community is gone. The new one is trash. The only one keeping NWU alive is Muzk and the people who are credited by him in the loading screen.

@Cut Chemist,

2/ I'd turn it into a passive, however I'd nerf the MS and slow drastically. Or perhaps make it into a marking spell like Zabuzas track. Perhaps lowers the armor and slows the marked target?
3/ Remove the mana regen and make it similar to Raikages passive.
4/ Personally, I'd have Lariat as #1 and this one is a channelled bijou bomb instead.


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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:42 pm

lol flama they keep alive the map but not the Game playing of it. thanks again.

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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:06 am

Which brings up the fact that the people who currently distribute the map are HolyBear and Clan BGN. They are the third party. Tower #2 already fell. This is tower #3.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:19 am

Spect dont act like that is like the second post i read about that actitude. You have to understand that shot went right back into my ass so i couldnt move the stuff especially when Muzk was on vacations.

Back on topic.

1. Survival skill, i dont like that much the Aoe effect, im not that much fun of the cleavings as Skill on hard carrys, i prefer to get the item.

Any way the skill seems good and it works ok.

2. Great Ganking tool, no complains about that

3. I dont like the fact that he could mana regen and add other effect, i know is because he has the 8 tails, but was enough in NvB days with naruto.

4. Another great gank tool, not complains about this one to.

Overall the suggestion is good if u can think of change at least the mana regen i will add it into the list.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:12 pm

What if I changed it so that each time he activated a spell he had a chance to gain bonus damage, nothing major like + 15 / 25 / 35 / 45 or w/e for 3 seconds?
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:35 am

will be okey and insteresting to play, do that!! I approve
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:24 pm

I made it add a passive attack speed bonus of + 10 / 20 / 30 / 40. Bare in mind that isn't % based.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:14 pm

He's much better than the 1st shot when u created this topic ^^

Just specify for how long the AS bonus in 3rd skill lasts and until how much AS it can stacks !
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:39 pm

GodScream wrote:
He's much better than the 1st shot when u created this topic ^^

Just specify for how long the AS bonus in 3rd skill lasts and until how much AS it can stacks !

The as bonus is a normal bonus, isnt based on a % is a flat number.

So the means of that skill is making passively B attack faster to obtain the bonus attack damage after 5 attacks, btw the AS doesnt stack.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:40 am

Natsu wrote:
GodScream wrote:
He's much better than the 1st shot when u created this topic ^^

Just specify for how long the AS bonus in 3rd skill lasts and until how much AS it can stacks !

The as bonus is a normal bonus, isnt based on a % is a flat number.

So the means of that skill is making passively B attack faster to obtain the bonus attack damage after 5 attacks, btw the AS doesnt stack.

Correct. This spell simply adds a bonus to attack speed once leveled; it isn't triggered by spells, nor does it stack.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:23 am

There is no 'flat AS' in WC3.

All you have is the BAT (Basic Attack Time) which can only be modified by transformations and is ~1.7 seconds and the IAS (Increased Attackspeed) which is allways % and can be modified by items etc.
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PostSubject: Re: [SM] Killer B   Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:06 pm

# im the gosu tower #

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