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 [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea

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Westfield
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PostSubject: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:50 pm

Quote :
Quote :
Okay, so this build was kind of inspired by looking at Warcraft ladder games. It should be fairly easy to code this I think, and in general the spell set is going to be very useful in the game.


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Name: Second Water Shadow
Alias: Nidaime Mizukage
Role: Support / Babysitter
Stats:

Str: 17 [+1.7]
Agi: 15 [+1.4]
Int: 23 [+2.2]
Quote :


Suiton: Water Bubbles Technique
Alias: Nidaime is able to produce bubbles which float around him.

Effect: Upon activation, Nidaime will gain a buff which will cause him to be surrounded 4 water baloons which will be moving around Nidaime for as long as the spell works. As soon as the spell will get levelled, Nidaime will get a sub spell called "Launch" which will enable him to shoot those balloons in the chosen area dealing 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 Magical Damage and setting up a small water pool (200 AoE) which will slow down MS by 20 / 25 / 30 / 35% of any enemy units who stays in it for 5 seconds. A maximum of 4 water pools.

Spell type: Active
Mana cost: 10% of his current mana
Cooldown: 25 seconds
Cast range: 500
AoE: 300
Duration: 15 seconds
Note:
*Nidaime will have a total of 10 seconds to launch out all 4 water balloons
*If Nida isn't gonna use this spell over the duration, he will regain 5% of his current mana per each water baloon that is remained on Nida.
Quote :


Launch

Effect: Upon targeting a chosen area, Nidaime will place a water pool which will slow down MS of any enemy units encountered by it.

Spell type: AoE Target
Mana cost: 0
Cooldown: 3 seconds
Cast time: 0.25 seconds
Note:
*
Quote :


Kychiyose No Jutsu: Clam
Alias: A personal summon of Nidaime Mizukage.

Visual: Nidaime will summon a sort of a "spiritual" clam on top or behind the targeted unit, sort of being in the ghost form or whatnot, as if its based in the mist.

Effect: Nidaime is able to put a buff on himself, his allies or enemy units. The buff itself will increase the spell's effectiveness on that particular unit by 50%, both through attack types and support types.  Additionally, during this spell the targeted unit will be immune to physical attacks. After Nidaime will level this spell up, he will get a sub spell called "Release", which will enable Nidaime to turn off the spell's effect when it isn't needed.

Spell type: Target / Unit
Mana cost: 80
Cooldown: 12 seconds
Cast range: 500
AoE: N/A
Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 seconds.
Note:
*A good life saving tool, as well as wearing out the opposing team during lane fights and team battles.
*While under the effect of this spell, unit will not be able to attack physically
Quote :


Hydrification Technique
Alias: A Water Release technique, commonly practiced in the Hozuki Clan.

Visual: Some kind of blue link between Nidaime and the target.

Effect: Upon using the spell on the unit, Nidaime will set up a link between himself and his target, getting a buff in the process. During this process, Nidaime will alter that unit's mana pool:

*If the spell is going to be used on enemy units, Nida will steal mana from them.
*If the spell is going to be used on ally units, Nida will transfer his own mana to them.
*The amount of mana stolen increases per level and is equal to 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 per sec.

Spell type: Target / Unit / Casting
Mana cost: 20
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Cast range: 600
AoE: 1000 (Break range)
Duration: 5 seconds
Note:
*This is a casting spell, so if Nidaime will get stunned, the spell will be over.
*A really useful tool to help out the team at all stages of the game, sort of becoming a mana battery. This can be very useful to NWU because as of now there is a few number of mana support spells / items.
*The spell will break if the unit will leave the AoE
*While under the effect of the second spell's buff, Nidaime's Hydrification Technique will transfer double mana
*Mana link will be broken if the target loses the sight of the enemy target
Quote :


Suiton: Mizudeppo No Jutsu
Alias: Nidaime Mizukage's deadly water release technique

Visual: A droplet of water being fired from Mizukage towards the target.

Effect: After using the spell on an enemy unit, Nidaime will fire off a droplet of water at the enemy unit which will travel its way at the maximum speed dealing 100 / 150 / 200 Damage. As soon as the water droplet is going to reach its target, it will develop a small water pool which will hold all enemy units in its place for 4 / 5 / 6 seconds.

Spell type: Target / Unit
Mana cost: 100 / 150 / 200
Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds
Cast range: 700
AoE: 400
Duration: 4 / 5 / 6 seconds
Note:
*While staying inside the pool, enemy units will only have their movement restricted, meaning they will still be able to cast spells and attack physically.
Change log:
*changed mana cost for 1st spell
*changed damage numbers to 1st spell
*changed mana drained for 3rd spell
*Removed 30% MS decrease and a feature of not being able to attack physically while under the buff for seconds spell
*changed cooldown of first spell
*changed ult fully
*Added a bit of description to 2nd and 3rd spells
*Changed icons for 1st and 2nd spells
*Added a mana regaining tool if the spell isn't used for 1st.


Last edited by Westfield on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:27 pm; edited 16 times in total
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:12 pm

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GodScream
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:01 am

U wanna comment ? all right Smile


1/ Too much damage 560 dmg in all + slow + possibility to use it 4 times as charges ?? that's too much. Mana cost is low for an intel heroe and such a spell

2/ Physical invulnerability for 12 seconds + possibility to stop it anytime?? that's really too much unbalanced. Manacost still so low

3/the spell i like the most in him. but the MP drained or given is too much. Better make it as a % of MP pool since 500MP from ennemy drained is really a lot. Higher manacost a little more and put CD to about 15 seconds

4/i don't like the how the aura works and the fact is a passiv with no synergy with other spells

In all, no oil+water explosion clone at all which is VERY sad, low manacost on all...
If I have to make a nidaime mizukage, some of ur spells may inspire spells for NWU Nidaime Mizukage but not your entire heroe build.
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:41 am

1. Considering that is his only way of dealing damage, I thought it would be ok, but i'll reduce the damage. I'll change mana cost to 5% of his current mana on all levels, as this spell is quite similar to Phoenix's second spell in Dota.

2. Physical invulnerability yes, but the damage from spells you receive is also increased by 50% and in additiona you're slowed. The possibility to cancel the effect is just to give it more control. The mana cost is fine because of the necessity to spam it among yourself and your allies / enemies. And the duration is not 12, it is scaled up to 10 seconds.

3. I've changed it to %. No need to put higher mana cost because the purpose of this spell is "mana battery" where Nida will have to exchange his own mana with his allies by stealing it from the enemy.

4. I disagree, the aura is going to be quite helpful as it grants some useful bonuses which are boosted up for every buff Nida has. And the combination of those 3 spells DO award him with a buff, so it does synergies.  Also, if you think about it, support - babysitters dont really have to have synergy between spells, because like in many of Dota's cases, like for example in the recent Oracle hero - non of his spells hold any synergy, however the spells are designed so that he can inject them into different kinds of situations which would involve around working with his allies.

Well some spells have to be sacraficed, after all its a 4 spell limit, so meh. And that oil explosion or whatnot isn't really anything special, plus the idea of an explosion is gonna be difficult to implement into this role
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Westfield
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:33 pm

EDIT: I've removed the 30% MS decrease from the second spell and made it so that the unit which is under the spell cannot attack with physical attacks
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:07 pm

Stats -Seems like you're going for squish in terms of both HP and armor, yet the hero has decent Int growth, along with a high base int, meaning he should be okay to use a good amount of spells in the laning phase.

Skill 1 - IMO, you get too much time to fire the balloons.

Skill 2 - Basically, decrepify. Anyway, duration is way too high.

Skill 3 - So, the transfer rate is the same for stealing or giving mana to an ally, eh? I would make it so if skill 2 is his target, the amount of mana stolen or transfered increases.

Skill 4 - So, spell one is a nuke + slight crowd control; spells 2 & 3 are utility spells and spell 4 doesn't really gel with the others, in anyway. Aside from applying 2 buffs to your self to boost its effects... Sure it is going to boost the combat effectiveness of your team, as well as keep the hero alive. But, you could probably add it to any hero, whose build possesses buffs and it would fit. I think the build does work, as constituted. But, try to think of an alternative.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:02 pm

1. I've increased cooldown to 3 seconds

2. Decrepify without MS restriction and a bit of a control over the spell itself. I've rescaled duration

3. Well thats the idea, the effects of all spells, both offence and defence get increased while under the effect of the second spell.

4. I've changed the ult. What do you think now?
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:15 pm

Skill 2 - Well, all that is listed right now is the unit takes increased magic damage, not that the mana drain / transfer effect is boosted.

Skill 4 - I think its an improvement.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:21 am

Edited second and third spell's description
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:48 am

Perhaps anyone want to add anything about this build? I really wanna see this mana-battery guy in the game

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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:15 am

He won't work as a mana-battery:

At level 1 you need to target a 700 mana target just to regain the amount of mana used to cast the spell, at level 4 you 'only' need a 175 mana target to break even but then you haven't gained anything.

Assuming a 500 Mana target will grant you merely 200 mana which makes you able to cast 1 spell after subtracting the 70 mana you spent before.

In my oppinion 500 mana drain over 5 seconds is kinda ok, mby nerf it to 400-450 but not make it go any lower or it will lose its sense. Also the manacost should be rather low like 20 at max. To balance it make him rather mana intensive. Also increase the cast and break range so it's at least 600 cast and 1000 break range but with the condition of maintaining sight.(For easier coding you might change it into two spells, one for draining and one for channeling it to a mate) A disable is meant to hurt, thats its purpose, if it doesn't hurt it is a wasted spell

@ Spell 1: You could shift the manacost to the launch and make the damage scaling with the spent mana.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:37 pm

Ok so I understand it that I'll have to increase the % per level? The initial idea was to use numbers instead of %, but i thought it would be better to have % so that the spell would have a potential in a long run against all hero types. I'll reduce the mana cost to 20. Cast ranged changed. I've nerfed his starting Int from 26 to 23. Also, the mana draining spell isn't a disable, its more like a support I would say which would enable Nida to help his lane partner / team around. I'm gonna increase the % stolen to 6 / 8 / 12 / 14 % of current mana

spell 1: I'm not sure what you mean. Damage is going to depend on the amount of mana missing? Like an Int bonus or?
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:05 pm

The problem is that being % based the spell only works on targets with enough mana like mid or late int heroes. Having it based on fixed numbers makes it work nice on ranged creeps (got mana) and in earlygame, which is where you are short on mana.

What i meant is since the manacost is a % of your current mana you could make the damage related and add some basic cost for the slow.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:20 pm

3: re-scaled the mana stolen from % to numbers

1: Increased mana cost from 5% to 10%, as well as added a little feature to it - if Nida isn't gonna use this spell over the duration, he will regain 5% of his current mana per each water baloon that is remained on him.

Considering his low stats, and a considerable increase for the 1st spell, i think adding another mana cost for launching would be too much
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:44 pm

I particullary dont like the clam spell i mean, you do it for the fact that you wanted the enemy take extra magic damage and the same time the debuff or utility skills weaken hard the target, wich mean you added that 3rd in a way to stole extra mana.

Is not that great compared with other Mizukages suggestions.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:17 pm

Eh, Im not too sure where you're coming from here because yes the target will take extra MDPS, but it's primary purpose is to help out the ally against physical pressure. This spell goes a long way and is viable during all stages of the game. And yes, I think having a boosting component in regards to the mana sap is quite unique and original, and spells do have a synergy between them so I don't quite see a problem here?

Well surely you can give me something more than just "me no liek that" comment. I believe this is one of my best suggestions, even if partly corrected by other users here. If you look at Dota, you'll see that obviously the map is moving into a new direction of "spells", one of the examples is Kaolin (earth panda) where he spawns an object to use in conjunction with his spells. This Nida idea is something new to NWU's gameplay in its own way.
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:36 pm

Westfield wrote:
Eh, Im not too sure where you're coming from here because yes the target will take extra MDPS, but it's primary purpose is to help out the ally against physical pressure. This spell goes a long way and is viable during all stages of the game. And yes, I think having a boosting component in regards to the mana sap is quite unique and original, and spells do have a synergy between them so I don't quite see a problem here?

Well surely you can give me something more than just "me no liek that" comment. I believe this is one of my best suggestions, even if partly corrected by other users here. If you look at Dota, you'll see that obviously the map is moving into a new direction of "spells", one of the examples is Kaolin (earth panda) where he spawns an object to use in conjunction with his spells. This Nida idea is something new to NWU's gameplay in its own way.
While, Kaolin is an example of using a default spell, something other AoS games have done before in Dota. You must also keep in mind that his spell-set is more the result of a gimmick becoming a hero build. The other new hero introduced alongside Kaolin, Oracle, is fairly standard. And is more of the norm as to what we're going to see in Dota.
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:36 pm

Cut,

Well I don't really have any knowledge about other games other than Dota, so I imagine this kind of concept was new to the majority of people out there. Also with every hero coming in, I kind of starting to question why is it that NWU developers are trying to use a strictly fixed template in regards to gameplay development. Each and every hero should have a synergy, isn't that just boring that a hero can't sort of use his spells differently at specific phases during the game?
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Cut Chemist
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PostSubject: Re: [IR] Nidaime Mizukage, Final Idea   Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:48 pm

A spell and its use at different points in the game is entirely based upon the individual spell. There are plenty of multi-functional spells in the game and among accepted suggestions for the game.
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