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mercinater
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PostSubject: What items can stack?   Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:50 am

can reminisce stack?
can kag armor stack?
can karities stack?


basically what can and can't stack?
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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:55 am

mercinater wrote:
can reminisce stack?
can kag armor stack?
can karities stack?


basically what can and can't stack?

Remi stack

Ways of damage block:
  • Shin Guards - 60% chance to block 20 damage
  • Reminisce - 70% chance to block 40 damage
  • Suika no Jutsu (Suigetsu's passive) - 100% chance to 28 damage at level 4


Only one Damage Block can proc/trigger at a time. The last acquired damage block is checked first of all, if it doesn't proc only then the next one is checked. Items counts as acquired when they are picked up and abilities counts as acquired when you learn the first level of the ability (any subsequent leveling will not make the ability count as re-acquired).

The chance that any of the sources you have which provides damage block will trigger follows a diminishing stacking pattern as can be seen by the damage block formula.
The following formula is used to calculate the chance that any source you have will trigger:

Chance to block = 1 - [(1-X)*(1-Y) ...]

{X, Y, ... } are replaced with the percentual chance that the source will trigger described as a decimal value.

Examples
Spoiler:
 

Mana Shield (Gaara) with Damage Block: Will the damage reduction happen before mana shield absorbs the damage ? Or will mana shield absorb the damage and then damage reduction works?
Spoiler:
 

Damage block can not block Shino's ultimate even though it is physical damage.

Damage block can block Shodaime's tree needles.

Damage block can block Hinata's ultimate.




The illusion damage reduction (like level 4 Naruto clone swap makes his clones do 45% of Naruto's STR) is applied before damage block.

As for other sources of physical damage from spells, I'm not sure. Like Mei's 3rd Skill: Lava Release Lava Globs.

All credits to e00E and Phoenix for this guide.

Um ... what do you mean by 'stack'? Kaguya Armor can't 'stack' with Kaguya Armor. Neither can Karites ... same items share the same cooldowns. If you mean the passive bonuses, like +5 armor, +22 attack,+10 INT, they obviously still stack. Getting 2 Kaguya Armors will give you all of that x2.

As for "basically what can and can't stack?", that would take a very long time to explain... narrow that down if you want to learn more.
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:44 pm

Magic Resistance Stack
All magic resistance stacks.

Magic resistance sources

1) Armor type. For example, armor type hero has 25%
2) Itachi's Sharingan: 12/20/28/38%
3) Anko's Snake Protecion: 4/8/12/16%
4) Flak Jacket: 30%
5) Shinobi Cloak: 15%
6) Mizukage's Komu no Jutsu: -7/-10/-13/-16%

How do they work?

Total Magic Resistance Bonus = 1-(1-X1)*(1-X2)*...*(1-X6)
Where Xi is the bonus listed before.
So, if you are using Itachi and you have level 1 sharingan, your MR bonus will be:
ItachiMR = 1-(1-0.25)*(1-0.12) = 0.34 = 34%

Mizukage's Komu no Jutsu
This ability stacks each second, maximum stack is 4. This stack is additive: AbilityCurrentMagicReducction*(timeElapsed+1)

For example, if you are afected by this buff (in level 1), it will affect you magic resistance by:
Initial: -7%
After 1 second: -14%
After 2 seconds: -21%
After 3 seconds: -28%

In next versions*, this buff will affect as the others: 1-(1-Reducction)^(stack)
In level 1:
Initial: -7%
After 1 second: -(1-(-0.07))^2 = - 14.49%
After 2 seconds: -(1-(-0.07))^3 = - 22.5%
After 3 seconds: -(1-(-0.07))^4 = - 31.07%

Obviusly, Exponential increased faster than lineal values.


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*: In next version, 1.3.6 Wink



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Kakashi[HoSW]
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:58 pm

muzk wrote:

Total Magic Resistance Bonus = 1-(1-X1)*(1-X2)*...*(1-X6)
Where Xi is the bonus listed before.
So, if you are using Itachi and you have level 1 sharingan, your MR bonus will be:
ItachiMR = 1-(1-0.25)*(1-0.12) = 0.34 = 34%

So, -mr command doesnt work correctly in 1.3.6 beta a version?
Coz if u pick itachi, upgrade level 1 sharingan 'n see -mr it says 12%.
-mr command doesnt take the 25% magic reduction into account
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:18 pm

It work good because I did It in that way, to show only bonus (exluding armor types). It shows the magic resistance bonus, not the total magic resistance.

W/e, in 1.3.6 -mr will count that 25%

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mercinater
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:03 am

thanks guys, i questioned karities cuz on one of the bots for battle.net they said no stacking it

and for those who don't know, you can basically negate dmg from lee's ult permanently if you stack two flaks (hp regen takes care of the gap)

ps: is there a max atk speed?
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:52 am

mercinater wrote:
thanks guys, i questioned karities cuz on one of the bots for battle.net they said no stacking it

and for those who don't know, you can basically negate dmg from lee's ult permanently if you stack two flaks (hp regen takes care of the gap)

ps: is there a max atk speed?

nope.

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Nyaaaasshka
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:59 am

There is limit of 400% boost (search for this info in dota guides) atk speed. in war3, so nidaime helm is stupid item ot lee.
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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:44 pm

mercinater wrote:
thanks guys, i questioned karities cuz on one of the bots for battle.net they said no stacking it

and for those who don't know, you can basically negate dmg from lee's ult permanently if you stack two flaks (hp regen takes care of the gap)

ps: is there a max atk speed?

I haven't played NWU for some time now so idk about the Karite's one then tbh. It SHOULD (unless it's another bug) share the same cooldown, but maybe there's another glitch associated with Karite like doing way more damage than it should, idk.

But Kuro doesn't ban stuff for no reason, usually a lot smarter in making bans than other bot owners.

[edit]: Nyaaa is right, -80% and 400% are the caps for attack speed modification. You could lower base attack speed, but 400% is still the max attack speed.
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Kakashi[HoSW]
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:23 pm

can evasion stack?

for example lee's evasion spell with good guys suit?
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:51 pm

Yup, Karites Touch is bugged pale
Well, I already fixed it I love you


Quote :
can evasion stack?

for example lee's evasion spell with good guys suit?

Yes. I think that is the same formula as the other things... 1-(1-b1)(1-b2)...(1-bn)

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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:32 pm

Kakashi[HoSW] wrote:
can evasion stack?

for example lee's evasion spell with good guys suit?

No. Evasion skills from items and spells don't stack. The one w/ the highest probability to evade will be chosen ... meaning Lee's evasion spell will be chosen over GG suit.

What will stack is like Nidaime's ultimate (which blinds enemies, as opposed to giving yourself evasion) with GG suit.

Nidaime's ult: 65%
GG Suit: 30%

Then it's 1 - (1 - 0.65)(1 - 0.30)
= 1 - 0.245
= 0.755
= 75.5 % chance for an enemy in Nidaime's ult while Nidaime has GG Suit to miss an attack

Idk the uphill miss % in nwu, but you pretty much add (1 - % chance to miss uphill) into the equation above as you would add Nidaime's ult or GG suit.

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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:10 am

http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/44516-Mathematics-Formulas?highlight=evasion+stack

Evasion stacks.

Chance to miss == 1 - (Prob Miss A * Prob Miss B * Prob Miss C * Prob Miss D * ...)

Cool

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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:21 am

muzk wrote:
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/44516-Mathematics-Formulas?highlight=evasion+stack

Evasion stacks.

Chance to miss == 1 - (Prob Miss A * Prob Miss B * Prob Miss C * Prob Miss D * ...)

Cool

Missing =/= evading Cool

Missing an attack is caused by something like Nidaime's ultimate, or Mei's Lava Glob (I don't think I've seen anyone miss because of her glob though, is it glitched?), Gai's Dynamic Entry, attacking uphill, etc. That stuff stacks, along with 1 other EVASION spell (the one with the highest percentage).

Evasion is like Lee's Drunken skill, GG Suit

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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:26 pm

Errr... I wrote that formula cuz it was a wrapper function.
Excluding terrain and Miss effects events, (1-Chance to evade) = Chance to Miss.
I asume you didn't read that post.

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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:35 pm

muzk wrote:
Errr... I wrote that formula cuz it was a wrapper function.
Excluding terrain and Miss effects events, (1-Chance to evade) = Chance to Miss.
I asume you didn't read that post.

Confused by your wording here, I think

Miss is a debuff on the opponent which causes them to miss (Dynamic Entry). Evade is passive Evasion (Demon Hunter). There's triggered Evasion in DotA (aka Pseudo-evasion or Heal), but no triggered Evasion in NWU.

What post? Your previous post or the link? If you're talking about the link, I'd say that it's wrong, according to later posts in the same thread and responses from the OP. And it's also wrong according to DotA's mechanics guides where the Evasion with the higest % will override the lower one, while SOME Miss spells stack with other Miss spells, and will also stack with passive Evasion and Terrain Advantage.

Or maybe I'm wrong, idk. Lemme reread everything again.

[Edit]: I think I understood what you just said now, nvm. I hate using Miss as the output of the equation though because I tend to think of Miss as another variable in the equation to calculate the total % chance to Evade.


Last edited by EchoingVoid on Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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Croix
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:45 pm

I haven't played the new V yet..but the only way i can think to MAYBE stack karites, would be using different levels of karites...like maybe a lvl 3 + a lvl 2 karites...maybe they wouldn't share cd...but again, thats not tested, maybe they do share, just a guess.
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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:12 am

Croix wrote:
I haven't played the new V yet..but the only way i can think to MAYBE stack karites, would be using different levels of karites...like maybe a lvl 3 + a lvl 2 karites...maybe they wouldn't share cd...but again, thats not tested, maybe they do share, just a guess.

Jin said that's what happens, you can stack lvl 3 + lvl 4 and their CDs will be diff.

[Edit]: I think I understood what you just said now, nvm. I hate using Miss as the output of the equation though because I tend to think of Miss as another variable in the equation to calculate the total % chance to Evade.
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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: What items can stack?   Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:28 am

Croix wrote:
I haven't played the new V yet..but the only way i can think to MAYBE stack karites, would be using different levels of karites...like maybe a lvl 3 + a lvl 2 karites...maybe they wouldn't share cd...but again, thats not tested, maybe they do share, just a guess.

yeah that is the problem. I already fixed it for next V.

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