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Eol
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PostSubject: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:33 pm

Tsuchikage

I)Stats

Str: 18+ 2.6
Agi: 15+ 1
Int: 18+ 1.95

Affiliation: Shinobi Alliance
Damage: 44-46
Armor: 2
Movespeed: 295
Attack Range: 100


As you can see, Onoki has a good str grow and intel grow. This means that you will be able to absorb physical damage and the lack of mana is not going to be a burden but the only problem here is his agi grow which is pathetic.

II)Pros & Cons

Quote :
PROS
  • Good at ganking
  • His performance against Carry/Tanks heroes is one of the best ingame
  • Very annoying in lane
  • fun to play

Quote :
CON
  • No farming skills
  • His ulti has a small Aoe
  • Dont have a decent last hit

People usually dont see Onoki as a threat but in the right hands can pwnd even the most farmed carry ingame. Also you need to remind that Onoki can tank, usually people dont go forward and just wait behind their lines and that is a huge mistake.

III)Skills

Spoiler:
 

Quote :
Ultimate:

Lets start with the math classes. Onoki's ultimate deals a % of the maximun hp of the target. The numbers are:

  • Level 1: 5%
  • Level 2: 6%
  • Level 3: 7%


If an Enemy in the aoe of your ultimate has 1700 hp your ulti in level 1 deals 85 per second, in level 2 deals 102 per second and level 3 deals 119 per second for the last 5 seconds.

So! the more maximun health the target has the more damage they will take and ofc the less maximun health they have the less your ultimate will deal.

Now to achive the instant kill your enemies have to be with his 5% of their maximun life. If the target (1700 hp) is under your ulti and drops his hp to 85 in that moment he will die instantly. As you can see you can use your ultimate to deal damage or get an instant kill

IV)Skill Build
Quote :
Before everything else, I'll just say that no skill build is the right one or is the best! It always depends on the situation you are in, and feel free to experiment on every single one of them. No one's stopping you.

Spoiler:
 

Explanation: In my opinion Turn to Dust its a very annoying skill that makes enemies attack damage ( Creeps,Heroes and Summons ) pass from good to Onoki's level ( Since Onoki has a bad last hit we can call this effect ''Onoki's level'' ) also this skill allow your creeps to take tha advantage in the line. Slagmite armor is one of the best skills ingame , return 100% of the damage taken (magic damage and physical damage) ofcourse this skill dont has a very important roll in early since only returns 25% of the damage taken
.

V)Item Build

Starting



Pretty much your average starting build, with 2 badges and Str gloves for stats, shindguards for minimize the creep damage and foot supply for heal.

Or

You can get this other set of items ( Difficult = Pro )



With this item build you will be able to spam your hold + armor for your units/friendly heroe and rush tobi mask

Core



Since Onoki dont has a good base damage you need to work on it, Silverhands give you splash(good synergy with your first spell and ultimate ), Remi ( good synergy with your passive ) , Sarutobi's helm ( good synergy with your slagmite armor ), 2 Sakura's gloves for stats and trends.


If you choose the second starting build:



This is a more ''Dps mode'' build type but still lead you to the basic idea that is synergy your skill with your items


Optional



If your enemy dont let you get close enough to cas your ulti on them, with this you cant miss.




If there is a hard-carry fat feeded bitch ingame, this could be work. Perma return!



Asuming you are a spartan and enjoy initiating fights , this can be a nice option for you.


Luxuries



Ombu Paw: Give you the fortitude to engage the enemy
Jashin Rage: Damage and life leech , is not just perfect?
CSM: Good against miss debuff beside give you attack speed to take advantage the buff given by Jashin rage
Solar Blade: ladies, gays and gentlemen i introduce you The key to make Onoki a killer machine
Hokage Armor: Since Onoki increase his armor,why dont show him some love and increase that amount a little bit? also good to rape in teamfights
Sagescroll: Once the enemy realise that is not wise to hit you while you have your Slagmite armor on , they are going to wait until the skill dispels, well here your chance to earn time to refresh your skill and finish your job.


Rejected Items



Some items are for Range heroes other are for Dsp heroes and others for those heroes that are fast enought to hit you and keep the debuff on you, Onoki is not in any of those categories.



What's the point here?



If you are planing a sneak attack you better get a dagger



You are not a Dsp heroe!!!!



Lol, you want they hit you as fast as they can, in fact you really want that more than life in self. So HELL NO!


VI)Teamfights

Onoki in a close range can be deadly this is why the enemy is not going to let you get closer , so what should you do? easy, let your initiator start the fight and go after him ( you need to be the second or thirth heroe to appear in a teamfight ) if you got a dagger you can initiate, ofc the chances to survive are not that good but you can deal a lot of damage. In case a Carry heroe go for you, dont run! Cast your slagmite armor an face him.


This is the list of the high priority-->lowest priority heroes/roles in a teamfight.


Quote :
  1. Tanks: Since you are a tank killer for nature , you will focus all your rage on them
  2. The rival Carry: Once you take the tanks down the enemy carry is going to jump and try to kill you, this will be your birth day present
  3. Initiators: Let your Carry or Initiators take them down, the last thing you want is be countered letting you in a bad possision to cast your spells.
  4. Support/casters: Lastly,usually they are far from the battle and your skills dont have the same effects in heroes with low hp so let your team beat them.

VII)Good Allies



They can drop the enemy hp fast, giving you the chance to do an instant kill

VII)Conclusion

Onoki is a very fun heroe to play, you only need to pick your targets wisely an perform your skills in the correct order. He is the nemesis of high hp heroes and dps heroes.

Also you need to remember this:

First and foremost, before you pick Onoki, ask yourself..

  • I like to play as a tank?
  • Would i be fast enough to cast my spells?
  • Is my team relying on a specific strategy?
  • Are my teammates noob or not?


Well guys i decide to make this guide because i see people that dont like to play with Onoki and thats is kind of lame. Cya in the next guide and sorry for the bad eng!

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Last edited by Eol on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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InMemory]Cobain
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:38 pm

I like how you synergy your items with your spells , but you should stop adding gelel as optional item before random/pubs noobs start make them as a primary item in their core clown
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Knife D
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:32 pm

Nice guide but i would like a deeper explanation of how Onoki's ultimate works if is that ok with you Eol.
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salsa
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:43 am

You need put the ultimate explanation in the guide, it rapes if used in the right time...
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:25 am

Update!

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salsa
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:28 am

Explain deeper the ultimate, since its effect has a great use for DPS or finish move
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:34 am

Done!

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muzk
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:40 am

Ultimate deals (0.4+0.1*Level)*MaxHp each second and lasts for 5 seconds.
Level: Onoki's ultimate level.
MaxHp: Max target HP.

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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:52 am

kabuto's ult is a good ally tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:54 am

I like hexagonal.
2 ults= 50% of enemy's HP
Stalagmite armor's double duration
2 Holds.
Inst a bad idea. I think its better than sage for him
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:39 am

Onoki cant affort hexagonal =S
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salsa
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:49 am

He can =X
Its my fourth item on Onoki
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 am

Lol i just test it , Onoki level 25 mana pool = 1092

Cast your ultimate cost 350 in level 3, your hold cost 140 level 4 , refresh cost 375 mana points and guess what! you cant cast your ultimate again >.>
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:47 am

I get jiraya sandals adn CA for him to spam hold adn have spell protection


Last edited by salsa on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:49 am

salsa wrote:
I get jiraya sandals for him early game to spam hold

lol! fail build, you will be pwnd in the first second in a teamfight
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:57 am

Nah, I can handle with my own build ^^ played this too much to be killed easily =P
But as u said is difficult, you must pay attention
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm

InMemory]Cobain wrote:
salsa wrote:
I get jiraya sandals for him early game to spam hold

lol! fail build, you will be pwnd in the first second in a teamfight

lol what? sure STR treads help w/ giving a little more hp, but it's no remi.
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InMemory]Cobain
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:07 pm

EchoingVoid wrote:
InMemory]Cobain wrote:
salsa wrote:
I get jiraya sandals for him early game to spam hold

lol! fail build, you will be pwnd in the first second in a teamfight

lol what? sure STR treads help w/ giving a little more hp, but it's no remi.

Lol at you, 150 hp can be the diference between win a fight or die like a random/pub like some people here.
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:47 pm

good guide i like it, but depend if i got remi is not bad idea getting a sanda after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:23 am

Thanks For the Guides Eol, now i just need to get onoki in a game to test it then I will leave my feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:18 am

InMemory]Cobain wrote:
EchoingVoid wrote:
InMemory]Cobain wrote:
salsa wrote:
I get jiraya sandals for him early game to spam hold

lol! fail build, you will be pwnd in the first second in a teamfight

lol what? sure STR treads help w/ giving a little more hp, but it's no remi.

Lol at you, 150 hp can be the diference between win a fight or die like a random/pub like some people here.

Mana boot is not a fail build at all, neither are Idates. They're just different.

Lmao. You know what else would be a difference in team fights? + 106 movespeed from Idate's buff, or +250 mana w/ replenish. At lvl 11, he can't use stun more than once, assuming he uses all of his skills. Stun, armor, ult = all of his mana gone. He has like 20 mana left.

Mana boots also give Oono laning ability when you're able to use stun multiple times.

Idates helps you keep up with low hp heroes when ulting.

And no, +150 hp will not mean you get pwnd in the first second of the team fight. That's less than 2 ham heals, and you're acting like that's the sole reason he got pwnd - because he didn't get +150 HP Str Treads looool
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:32 am

And why in tha hell a ms is going to make the difference in a teamfight? are you noob/random/pub? you need to think a little bit. Onoki is one of the first heroes who fall in battle, you think Jiraiyas sandals are going to do de difference? danm thats why nobody respect people from east, all you talk like real pros when you play like noobs.
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:56 am

+150hp isnt a big deal, I prefer change this extra HP for some mana, so I can spam hold or use armor early-mid game.
In my opnion its better have mana to use your skills when necessary than just have 150 extra HP.

But if you dont feel confident in yours skills or want learn the basic, trends is a better choice.

But most important, dont forget Onoki is a tank, dont think just cuz he is tiny he does nothing. ¬¬


@Cobain
Dont start this discussion, please =]
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EchoingVoid
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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:05 am

@salsa: This nubtard started again, too late rofl. So sad yet so cute

InMemory]Cobain wrote:
danm thats why nobody respect people from east, all you talk like real pros when you play like noobs.

the most annoying noob ever always starting the flame when ur bad

http://www.nwu-forum.net/t506p15-boooring

He's been pretty much all East, rarely even plays on Europe. And there are plenty of ppl on par with him in 1v1 on East. These are the kind of players we play with all the time unlike you tiny unknown private server rofl. You said yourself, "YahikO- is probably the best player i ever face." meaning there are no people at his skill level at your server.

u booooring nub. You don't even think Hinata needs Gelel as core, you sad pub. Glad you gave up on responding in that Hinata thread, was getting bored of winning the discussion.

InMemory]Cobain wrote:
And why in tha hell a ms is going to make the difference in a teamfight? are you noob/random/pub? you need to think a little bit. Onoki is one of the first heroes who fall in battle, you think Jiraiyas sandals are going to do de difference?

Idates: Allows for Oonoki to chase low hp enemies with ult, or run away when he's going to die himself. As for any other hero out there. During the laning phase, this is more useful than any other type of boot for last hitting creeps, 24 dmg > treads.

Jiraiya: Allows for Oonoki to stun twice in team fights while also casting the rest of his spells. Otherwise he can only stun once. Helps in laning phase by allowing you to harass. Also helps in general when your team needs mana (which is often), and would fulfill your role of being support. Unless you want to go to base for mana every time after every gank attempt, get this boot.

Again, going back to what you said originally, you claim that if you get pwnd first in a team fight, it's all cuz you dont have +150 hp. That's less than 2 hams, so no rofl, not true at all.

Never said Treads are bad, just that Idates/Jiraiya are viable alternatives.





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PostSubject: Re: Onoki/Tsuchikage   Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:38 am

Ok... lets back to the topic


So now we know that jiraya sandals is a viable item for Onoki, and in my opnion is better than treands, since it gives mana to spam the hold and harass the enemy early game and mid-late it let you use all yours skills and use hold again.
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