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Natsu
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:41 pm

Bur he have to be in melee range to use the ultimate, btw numbers are numbers. They can be changed if they are to much.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:41 pm

Natsu wrote:
Bur he have to be in melee range to use the ultimate, btw numbers are numbers. They can be changed if they are to much.

AoE : 1375 / 1425 / 1475

pretty melee like
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:26 pm

Add This hero :3
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 pm

Phoenix- wrote:
Natsu wrote:
Bur he have to be in melee range to use the ultimate, btw numbers are numbers. They can be changed if they are to much.

AoE : 1375 / 1425 / 1475

pretty melee like

For some one that will nuke you up yes, any way the range can be nerfed. I mean the only thing i see is complains about number that can be changed -.-

Btw before countering your sarcams post phoenix, you see the number but not how to be used the skill i mean. A noob yagura will cast the skill from side to side, that will make the enemys run. A pro yagura will step in middle of all the heros and cast the ultimate, wich means....

Yeah he need to be at melee range, so he can pick up all the heros arund him. And no 2 that will have the chance to run in the oposite direction.


Last edited by Natsu on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Natsu wrote:

For some one that will nuke you up yes, any way the range can be nerfed. I mean the only thing i see is complains about number that can be changed -.-

Btw before countering your sarcams post phoenix, you see the number but not how to be used the skill i mean. A noob yagura will cast the skill from side to side, that will make the enemys run. A pro yagura will step in middle of all the heros and cast the ultimate, wich means....

Yeah he need to be at melee range, so he can pick up all the heros arund him. And no 2 that will have the change to run in the oposite direction.

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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:53 am

Natsu wrote:

For some one that will nuke you up yes, any way the range can be nerfed. I mean the only thing i see is complains about number that can be changed -.-

Btw before countering your sarcams post phoenix, you see the number but not how to be used the skill i mean. A noob yagura will cast the skill from side to side, that will make the enemys run. A pro yagura will step in middle of all the heros and cast the ultimate, wich means....

Yeah he need to be at melee range, so he can pick up all the heros arund him. And no 2 that will have the chance to run in the oposite direction.

Sounds pretty much like an Initiator as well as the concept of the ultimate is more like an initiating one, reducing the AS by a lot and making them vulnerable.

Also the first spell is rather a support type spell than carry type.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:59 am

well just removing the as reduction will solve the problem. The mechanics to make him Aoe dont necesarily make him an Init you have nerver more like example he hard carry well, even with his aoe ultimate.

About the second thing, that skill is just helping Yagura itself dps the target. Not freely use the clone to hit another target, will be supportish if you could use it on a team mate. wich mean that skill work differently from Terror Blade of dota wich make the skill unique.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:16 am

Natsu wrote:
well just removing the as reduction will solve the problem. The mechanics to make him Aoe dont necesarily make him an Init you have nerver more like example he hard carry well, even with his aoe ultimate.

About the second thing, that skill is just helping Yagura itself dps the target. Not freely use the clone to hit another target, will be supportish if you could use it on a team mate. wich mean that skill work differently from Terror Blade of dota wich make the skill unique.

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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:57 pm

Natsu wrote:
well just removing the as reduction will solve the problem. The mechanics to make him Aoe dont necesarily make him an Init you have nerver more like example he hard carry well, even with his aoe ultimate.

About the second thing, that skill is just helping Yagura itself dps the target. Not freely use the clone to hit another target, will be supportish if you could use it on a team mate. wich mean that skill work differently from Terror Blade of dota wich make the skill unique.

-As is the main reason that makes it initiating like, it's not a "just", it changes the type of the spell from a strong initiating disable, leaving the enemy weakened in attack and defense to simple increase in the damage they take as carries benefit from.

Nevermore needs farm for his ultimate as well as his positioning decides if he deals extreme damage to 1 unit or moderate to much units.


The spell is supportish as it only takes it strengths from how strong the target is while the spell from Terror Blade also has a disable which only works if TB deals enough damage himself.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Is a just cus the suggestion ist mine. I know that SF depends on how many "souls" he have farmed up to deal a lot of damage with his ultimate and yes you confirmed my point this yagura and Never depends on position to deals a lot of damage with Their Ultimates and even that the mechanics are the same, they clean up the heros that had the -armor debuff.

Btw this yagura depends on farminf he cant really get the great AS item in game since his slow skill fuck orb, wich means he depends on farming other items that boost his as.

About TB i wasnt talking about his ultimate i was talking about his 1st that generates images that deals damage on the targets in the aoe + slow. Those images are forced to hit the units that they were created from. He cant freely control them, his ultimate is his survival, you are getting confuse with his ultimate.

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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:48 pm

TB got his first spell changed in 6.75, thats what i was referring to, that disable is the slow. Being able to move the image freely is even more supportish, because you can copy the enemy carry and start attacking their weakest link and he will be close to death before they might notice whats going on.

NVM positioning is quite unique because he sends out lines and ppl get hit from different amounts of lines depending on their positioning as he deals maximum damage is he stands next to or in (Phase Boots or Lothars) the enemy unit.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:48 am

Phoenix- wrote:
TB got his first spell changed in 6.75, thats what i was referring to, that disable is the slow. Being able to move the image freely is even more supportish, because you can copy the enemy carry and start attacking their weakest link and he will be close to death before they might notice whats going on.

NVM positioning is quite unique because he sends out lines and ppl get hit from different amounts of lines depending on their positioning as he deals maximum damage is he stands next to or in (Phase Boots or Lothars) the enemy unit.

Thanks for giving me the reason, because if you read the 1st skill you will notice that Eol especified that the clone is force to attack the target that he was created from for 5 seconds.

About SF, I know that even if im not a SF kind of a player, but what you say went off about the suggestion conversation, appart from the fact that Yagura dont deals more dmg depending on how many creeps he kills. Any way ima remove the as slow and re-scale the AoE, since people is complaning about that.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:38 am

How about making the 1st spell Aoe based which would summon copies of all enemy heroes if caught within the aoe? I think single target is kinda limiting the potential of this spell in some way
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:20 pm

Terrorblade has that kind of skill, his 1st slow every target in the selected AoE and generate images of everyone there, that are forced to attack the unit that were created from.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:17 pm

No Terroblade doesnt have that spell anymore, that spell got revampled a long time ago, now its just a single target spell which spawns a reflection and slows down, so in terms of copying stuff from Dota I think it would make much more sence to change it to AoE

ps And besides its just 1 skill which more or less gets copied...there is tons of stuff which gets copied from Dota by NWU like Madara for example, you admited that yourself and the revamp isnt gonna take place any time soon. I feel that spell should be AoE
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:00 am

For the moment leave it like it is. When the time comes to add him i will check if it would be better to turn it into and AoE skill.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:15 am

Stats: For a hero that gains a ton of bonus damage from spells 2 & 3, as well as possesses a spell that lowers armor. The agility growth is a little high. Overall, the hero should be more of a semi-carry, rather than a hard-carry.

#1. Should scale the duration of the Reflection.
#2. Might as well make the original slow % static, because the 2 / 4 / 6% increase doesn't really do much. I'd probably go for 24%.
#3. So, the passive can deal up to 100 bonus magic damage. Mk.
#4. The armor reduction is a little high.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:31 am

Cut Chemist wrote:
Stats: For a hero that gains a ton of bonus damage from spells 2 & 3, as well as possesses a spell that lowers armor. The agility growth is a little high. Overall, the hero should be more of a semi-carry, rather than a hard-carry.

#1. Should scale the duration of the Reflection.
#2. Might as well make the original slow % static, because the 2 / 4 / 6% increase doesn't really do much. I'd probably go for 24%.
#3. So, the passive can deal up to 100 bonus magic damage. Mk.
#4. The armor reduction is a little high.

1. Scaled, now last for 6 secs in the maximun lvl.

2. I wanted to make the slow unique, not something like Drown Ranger Slow.

3. Yeap 100 bonus magic damage.

4. I reduced the armor reduct to 6/8/10 at maximun lvl.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:15 am

The only thing I'm suggesting is changing the slow component of the 2nd spell to work like this...

Slows target's movespeed by 24%, each additional attack will slow the target by an additional 2 / 4 / 6 / 8%.

I just find it's pointless to scale the initial slow.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:59 pm

Sorry about that, i misunderstood what you said.

I changed that, now the initial slow is 24%
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:33 pm

Also change his alias to Yondaime Mizukage Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:09 am

Had another look at the build whilst trying to find this uniqueness that Natsu been on about lately. Kinda failed

1. The spell is useless as from what I get from the info of this spell is that you can easily evade the mirror reflections. Just kite it or something. And in terms of damage, from what I understand, is that it depends on the damage amount that the enemy unit has, so the spell will be very situation in regards to who to use it against. Additionally, this is almost a direct copy of current Terrorblade's first spell, but instead in Dota he has a slow attached to it, which kind of serves as an insurance that the reflection will deal all the necessary damage

2. A stacking slow, is probably the only thing I like here and is worth adding

3. A rather simple passive which goes along with the slow I guess, but whats so interesting about that? I mean all you'll have to do is auto-attack. I would much rather prefer to go with some kind of item boost. It feels like I'm looking at some kind of dwarven sniper

4. Basically this is Venomancer's ultimate, thus a copy of Dota's design, but instead with an armor decrease.

So tell me, whats so special about this one that it needs to get added 100% ?
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:48 am

Westfield wrote:
Had another look at the build whilst trying to find this uniqueness that Natsu been on about lately. Kinda failed

1. The spell is useless as from what I get from the info of this spell is that you can easily evade the mirror reflections. Just kite it or something. And in terms of damage, from what I understand, is that it depends on the damage amount that the enemy unit has, so the spell will be very situation in regards to who to use it against. Additionally, this is almost a direct copy of current Terrorblade's first spell, but instead in Dota he has a slow attached to it, which kind of serves as an insurance that the reflection will deal all the necessary damage

2. A stacking slow, is probably the only thing I like here and is worth adding

3. A rather simple passive which goes along with the slow I guess, but whats so interesting about that? I mean all you'll have to do is auto-attack. I would much rather prefer to go with some kind of item boost. It feels like I'm looking at some kind of dwarven sniper

4. Basically this is Venomancer's ultimate, thus a copy of Dota's design, but instead with an armor decrease.

So tell me, whats so special about this one that it needs to get added 100% ?
#1. There's more than one way to go about such abilites... I.E. Making the spawned clone have high movespeed and no collision.

#2. Yap, the slow is pretty much the best part of the skill. Especially, since for some reason the desire is to deal true damage alongside that for 16 mana.

#3. There is nothing wrong with auto-attack carries...

#4. No, you're wrong. It is just a No target spell...or Self position. Dota didn't invent it.

There's nothing that screams greatness, it is just a mostily solid suggestion, like yours.
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:53 am

3. Not saying it's wrong, just simple. If it's all about uniqueness to Natsu, I dont see a reason to have this "easy" spell on him

4. Nevertheless it is present in Dota, thus cannot take place in NWU from Natsu' logic right?

PS Spec, how about you make a suggestion on Yagura
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PostSubject: Re: [AR] Yagura   Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:01 am

Westfield wrote:
3. Not saying it's wrong, just simple. If it's all about uniqueness to Natsu, I dont see a reason to have this "easy" spell on him

4. Nevertheless it is present in Dota, thus cannot take place in NWU from Natsu' logic right?

PS Spec, how about you make a suggestion on Yagura
Will you stop being so petty, it is annoying.

As far as I know Natu's contention is with just simply ripping stuff from Dota. He doesn't have a problem using ideas from its map, hero or item design. It seems this suggestion might have been put forth out of deference to what Eol did for the map, not that it is a bad suggestion, since I already said I weigh it about equal with yours.
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