Chouji/Konoha Giant

HenriqueFB wrote:

So what you do if the oppenent has iron crow+critical and disable?

if we are talking about zabusa,lee or gai your only chance to survive is to get kaguya armor.

That item with the brutal hp of chouji should be enought to persuade them from attack you.

I love the guide, but I personally get 1 level of Body Fat at level 1, then Hyper Size, Hyper Size, and follow out the rest of your skill build. That 1 level of Body Fat helps harass ranged champions that are trying to harass you, helps get last-hits on creeps if you mess-up on a last-hit, and has saved me many times early game because it wears them down as they're fighting which is very bad for them early game since most champions have low health early on.

Consider get first skill after 1 creep wave so u can see how your enemies play

I never get a spell (Unless it's a basic one like Zab's crit or something) until halfway through the first wave and I've seen who I'm laning with and against.

Aximil wrote:

I never get a spell (Unless it's a basic one like Zab's crit or something) until halfway through the first wave and I've seen who I'm laning with and against.

Ino hold
Kakashi hold
Nibi heal
Oonoki hold
Sakura stun
Sasuke AoE
Deidara Bomb
Lee Renge
Gai Dynamic Entry
Haku Senbon
Jiraiya Fireball
Temari Lift
Jirobou Fissure
Kankuro Hold
Shodaime Needles


there are probably more spells I get w/o thinking lol at level 1.

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

I never get a spell (Unless it's a basic one like Zab's crit or something) until halfway through the first wave and I've seen who I'm laning with and against.

Ino hold
Kakashi hold
Nibi heal
Oonoki hold
Sakura stun
Sasuke AoE
Deidara Bomb
Lee Renge
Gai Dynamic Entry
Haku Senbon
Jiraiya Fireball
Temari Lift
Jirobou Fissure
Kankuro Hold
Shodaime Needles


there are probably more spells I get w/o thinking lol at level 1.

Ino=Depends on who I'm against in-lane and how they play. I may get clone at level 1 to avoid spells.
Kakashi=Depends on how aggressively they play or hold-inducing they are. May get wind walk.
Nibi=Yes, I do get that right away.
Oonoki=Never been him so have no clue.
Sakura=I actually often get her passive at level 1 since her stun costs so much.
Sasuke=Depending on who I'm with I may get stun.
Deidara=Another instant skill.
Lee=I get his passive for maximum LHing.
Gai=I play him almost completely passively if I partner with someone who knows how to harass. If not, I do get Dynamic Entry right away.
Haku=Yes.
Jiraiya=If they're both melee I get 1 level of Hair Needle things first.
Temari=Yes, unless there's a Juugo against me. Then I get 1 target gust.
Jiroubou=Yes.
Kankuro=I refuse to play Kankuro. But I would get hold if I were to use him.
Shodaime=Depending on who I'm with I may get my trees prison right away.

Aximil wrote:

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

I never get a spell (Unless it's a basic one like Zab's crit or something) until halfway through the first wave and I've seen who I'm laning with and against.

Ino hold
Kakashi hold
Nibi heal
Oonoki hold
Sakura stun
Sasuke AoE
Deidara Bomb
Lee Renge
Gai Dynamic Entry
Haku Senbon
Jiraiya Fireball
Temari Lift
Jirobou Fissure
Kankuro Hold
Shodaime Needles


there are probably more spells I get w/o thinking lol at level 1.

Ino=Depends on who I'm against in-lane and how they play. I may get clone at level 1 to avoid spells.
Kakashi=Depends on how aggressively they play or hold-inducing they are. May get wind walk.
Nibi=Yes, I do get that right away.
Oonoki=Never been him so have no clue.
Sakura=I actually often get her passive at level 1 since her stun costs so much.
Sasuke=Depending on who I'm with I may get stun.
Deidara=Another instant skill.
Lee=I get his passive for maximum LHing.
Gai=I play him almost completely passively if I partner with someone who knows how to harass. If not, I do get Dynamic Entry right away.
Haku=Yes.
Jiraiya=If they're both melee I get 1 level of Hair Needle things first.
Temari=Yes, unless there's a Juugo against me. Then I get 1 target gust.
Jiroubou=Yes.
Kankuro=I refuse to play Kankuro. But I would get hold if I were to use him.
Shodaime=Depending on who I'm with I may get my trees prison right away.

... you do NOT need to dodge spells at lvl 1 wtf. Assuming it's not 5 man level 1 gank.

You should NOT be getting raped at level 1 and be forced to use windwalk. Unless it's like a 5 man gank at level 1.

Sakura's passive I don't get till later, where I actually have AS to make use of it. And it just messes up lh sometimes when you're just weakning the creep, and not trying to kill it.

Lee I can see why you might get passive first, but I max passive and renge first anyways, renge taking priority.

Gai's entry for lane control and for it's general uses. Like saving yourself from getting raped by someone's autoattack, saving a partner, etc. His more useful passive early is his ASPD one, but not the crits since he lacks the damage for it.

Jiraiya I still max his nukes first, your slow hurts a lot when you hit enemies at point blank (or just with both waves) anyways, wouldn't recommend trying to melee Jiraiya early on.

Juugo? Wut? Lift would be more effective against Juugo than Temari's other nuke anyways.

Unless you're planning on level 1 harass with a ranged partner (which isn't all that useful), his needles is much more useful at level 1 if they get careless, or if you just want your creep kills.

Agree with Echo

InMemory]Cobain wrote:

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

I never get a spell (Unless it's a basic one like Zab's crit or something) until halfway through the first wave and I've seen who I'm laning with and against.

Ino hold
Kakashi hold
Nibi heal
Oonoki hold
Sakura stun
Sasuke AoE
Deidara Bomb
Lee Renge
Gai Dynamic Entry
Haku Senbon
Jiraiya Fireball
Temari Lift
Jirobou Fissure
Kankuro Hold
Shodaime Needles


there are probably more spells I get w/o thinking lol at level 1.

Ino=Depends on who I'm against in-lane and how they play. I may get clone at level 1 to avoid spells.
Kakashi=Depends on how aggressively they play or hold-inducing they are. May get wind walk.
Nibi=Yes, I do get that right away.
Oonoki=Never been him so have no clue.
Sakura=I actually often get her passive at level 1 since her stun costs so much.
Sasuke=Depending on who I'm with I may get stun.
Deidara=Another instant skill.
Lee=I get his passive for maximum LHing.
Gai=I play him almost completely passively if I partner with someone who knows how to harass. If not, I do get Dynamic Entry right away.
Haku=Yes.
Jiraiya=If they're both melee I get 1 level of Hair Needle things first.
Temari=Yes, unless there's a Juugo against me. Then I get 1 target gust.
Jiroubou=Yes.
Kankuro=I refuse to play Kankuro. But I would get hold if I were to use him.
Shodaime=Depending on who I'm with I may get my trees prison right away.

... you do NOT need to dodge spells at lvl 1 wtf. Assuming it's not 5 man level 1 gank.

You should NOT be getting raped at level 1 and be forced to use windwalk. Unless it's like a 5 man gank at level 1.

Sakura's passive I don't get till later, where I actually have AS to make use of it. And it just messes up lh sometimes when you're just weakning the creep, and not trying to kill it.

Lee I can see why you might get passive first, but I max passive and renge first anyways, renge taking priority.

Gai's entry for lane control and for it's general uses. Like saving yourself from getting raped by someone's autoattack, saving a partner, etc. His more useful passive early is his ASPD one, but not the crits since he lacks the damage for it.

Jiraiya I still max his nukes first, your slow hurts a lot when you hit enemies at point blank (or just with both waves) anyways, wouldn't recommend trying to melee Jiraiya early on.

Juugo? Wut? Lift would be more effective against Juugo than Temari's other nuke anyways.

Unless you're planning on level 1 harass with a ranged partner (which isn't all that useful), his needles is much more useful at level 1 if they get careless, or if you just want your creep kills.

Agree with Echo

There have been many cases where I had to get rid of/dodge spells at level 1 with level 1 ganks.

Again, it depends on how aggressive the enemies are or what their combination is.

It may mess up LHing, if that's what I were doing. I use it to harass the enemies giving my partner free-farm if they're both melee. I tend to play babysitter if I have someone who can carry on my team.

Yes, I max Primary Lotus first always, but I still get passive at level 1.

As I said before, it depends on how experience or not my partner is.

Yes, I do max his nukes first, but I still get level 1 Hair Needles if I'm against melee.

No, lift is not better against Juugo at level 1. Her Target Gust stops his attack boost for some reason which messes up his LHs, allowing me to deny and harass him.

Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Nibi, and several others. As I said already, it depends on who I'm laning with.

Aximil wrote:

There have been many cases where I had to get rid of/dodge spells at level 1 with level 1 ganks.

Again, it depends on how aggressive the enemies are or what their combination is.

It may mess up LHing, if that's what I were doing. I use it to harass the enemies giving my partner free-farm if they're both melee. I tend to play babysitter if I have someone who can carry on my team.

Yes, I max Primary Lotus first always, but I still get passive at level 1.

As I said before, it depends on how experience or not my partner is.

Yes, I do max his nukes first, but I still get level 1 Hair Needles if I'm against melee.

No, lift is not better against Juugo at level 1. Her Target Gust stops his attack boost for some reason which messes up his LHs, allowing me to deny and harass him.

Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Nibi, and several others. As I said already, it depends on who I'm laning with.

Ppl don't gank at level 1 in nwu. There is no more -um mode, so no, just no. You don't even play ihs where that MIGHTTTTTTT happen (huge MIGHT), so don't even talk about that.

I want you to kill me at lvl 1 when I'm kakashi. Try it, bet you won't even get 250 damage in.

You don't really harass with physical melee attacks. Terrible idea, you're better off just lhing. TERRIBLE idea. Yeah, go run up to harass Dei, Haku, Kank, Shika. Seriously, passive isn't even effective in harassing. It's easily avoidable, and just asking for trouble because you're melee and harassable yourself, especially vs ranged. Sakura as a babysitter is terrible, better off as roamer if not carry.

Rather just get nukes ASAP than have to deal w/ level 1 passive which really can fuck up lh bad when you're trying to farm by your tower. 1 needle throws off the 4 tower hit hero last hit.

Um I think you're talking about Lift, which I remember it doing that. And even if we were to assume gust disables his damage bonus, it's easily reactivated. 0 cooldown on it

srsly just drop it think about our kaguya armor debate :O you won't win ever.

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

There have been many cases where I had to get rid of/dodge spells at level 1 with level 1 ganks.

Again, it depends on how aggressive the enemies are or what their combination is.

It may mess up LHing, if that's what I were doing. I use it to harass the enemies giving my partner free-farm if they're both melee. I tend to play babysitter if I have someone who can carry on my team.

Yes, I max Primary Lotus first always, but I still get passive at level 1.

As I said before, it depends on how experience or not my partner is.

Yes, I do max his nukes first, but I still get level 1 Hair Needles if I'm against melee.

No, lift is not better against Juugo at level 1. Her Target Gust stops his attack boost for some reason which messes up his LHs, allowing me to deny and harass him.

Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Nibi, and several others. As I said already, it depends on who I'm laning with.

Ppl don't gank at level 1 in nwu. There is no more -um mode, so no, just no. You don't even play ihs where that MIGHTTTTTTT happen (huge MIGHT), so don't even talk about that.

I want you to kill me at lvl 1 when I'm kakashi. Try it, bet you won't even get 250 damage in.

You don't really harass with physical melee attacks. Terrible idea, you're better off just lhing. TERRIBLE idea. Yeah, go run up to harass Dei, Haku, Kank, Shika. Seriously, passive isn't even effective in harassing. It's easily avoidable, and just asking for trouble because you're melee and harassable yourself, especially vs ranged. Sakura as a babysitter is terrible, better off as roamer if not carry.

Rather just get nukes ASAP than have to deal w/ level 1 passive which really can fuck up lh bad when you're trying to farm by your tower. 1 needle throws off the 4 tower hit hero last hit.

Um I think you're talking about Lift, which I remember it doing that. And even if we were to assume gust disables his damage bonus, it's easily reactivated. 0 cooldown on it

srsly just drop it think about our kaguya armor debate :O you won't win ever.

You're clearly playing against extremely bad players if they don't gank at level 1 while having the resources to do so.

Same as above, there is a high chance of level 1 gank if you're playing against decent players.

lol, why would any sensible person try to harass ranged champions with melee champions? Extremely bad example. And babysitters ARE roamers. Going from lane to lane helping peoples to outlane the enemy.

Simply don't get hit to trigger the Hair Needles if you're at your tower, there is a thing known as moving.

Doesn't matter what the cooldown is, it still screws up LHing and normally takes a tad for the Juugo to realize it's turned off since we're not computers and don't instantly recognize it's off.

I don't remember any debate about Kaguya Armor. Also, there's no winning in a debate such as this because no game is ever the same so there is different optimal things that players can do throughout each individual game.

Aximil wrote:

EchoingVoid wrote:

Aximil wrote:

There have been many cases where I had to get rid of/dodge spells at level 1 with level 1 ganks.

Again, it depends on how aggressive the enemies are or what their combination is.

It may mess up LHing, if that's what I were doing. I use it to harass the enemies giving my partner free-farm if they're both melee. I tend to play babysitter if I have someone who can carry on my team.

Yes, I max Primary Lotus first always, but I still get passive at level 1.

As I said before, it depends on how experience or not my partner is.

Yes, I do max his nukes first, but I still get level 1 Hair Needles if I'm against melee.

No, lift is not better against Juugo at level 1. Her Target Gust stops his attack boost for some reason which messes up his LHs, allowing me to deny and harass him.

Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Nibi, and several others. As I said already, it depends on who I'm laning with.

Ppl don't gank at level 1 in nwu. There is no more -um mode, so no, just no. You don't even play ihs where that MIGHTTTTTTT happen (huge MIGHT), so don't even talk about that.

I want you to kill me at lvl 1 when I'm kakashi. Try it, bet you won't even get 250 damage in.

You don't really harass with physical melee attacks. Terrible idea, you're better off just lhing. TERRIBLE idea. Yeah, go run up to harass Dei, Haku, Kank, Shika. Seriously, passive isn't even effective in harassing. It's easily avoidable, and just asking for trouble because you're melee and harassable yourself, especially vs ranged. Sakura as a babysitter is terrible, better off as roamer if not carry.

Rather just get nukes ASAP than have to deal w/ level 1 passive which really can fuck up lh bad when you're trying to farm by your tower. 1 needle throws off the 4 tower hit hero last hit.

Um I think you're talking about Lift, which I remember it doing that. And even if we were to assume gust disables his damage bonus, it's easily reactivated. 0 cooldown on it

srsly just drop it think about our kaguya armor debate :O you won't win ever.

You're clearly playing against extremely bad players if they don't gank at level 1 while having the resources to do so.

Same as above, there is a high chance of level 1 gank if you're playing against decent players.

lol, why would any sensible person try to harass ranged champions with melee champions? Extremely bad example. And babysitters ARE roamers. Going from lane to lane helping peoples to outlane the enemy.

Simply don't get hit to trigger the Hair Needles if you're at your tower, there is a thing known as moving.

Doesn't matter what the cooldown is, it still screws up LHing and normally takes a tad for the Juugo to realize it's turned off since we're not computers and don't instantly recognize it's off.

I don't remember any debate about Kaguya Armor. Also, there's no winning in a debate such as this because no game is ever the same so there is different optimal things that players can do throughout each individual game.

Yeah, hahlucky robust jin mouzz twas-proph are all terrible players indeed lmao. Resources needed for lvl 1 rarely exist in NWU. Maybe like Jiro w/ a perfect block, Ino and kimi? Even then, the typical 9 ham build would still save you. You mentioned champions later in your post, this is NOT LoL where it's very possible to get first blood before creeps even reach the lanes (i.e. at level 1).

Just pointing out how fail melee 'harass' is in the face of way better harass, aka range. Because obviously you'd get outharassed, but you're saying that you get passive for harassing on Sakura, which makes little sense. Also, learn what babysitting is because you have no idea what it is. It's sticking to a lane, and you lane with a carry. You don't even last hit enemy creeps, you just deny. You harass enemy heroes and keep them off your carry while the carry pretty much does nothing but farm. Babysitting is almost always done with ranged heroes, because you obviously harass much better (like Haku). Can't really think of many melee heroes that can fulfill this role. Roaming isn't so much helping your carry easily farm throughout early-mid game but just ganking anyone susceptible to ganks, which may often times not be the lane your carry is in.

There's a thing called movespeed, because it's not 522 without boots. Also when running from creeps and letting the tower hit it 4 times, you often get hit a few times. Because at the same time you're trying to stay in towers range and stay close to the creep at the same time to hit it when the time comes, and turning slows you down.

Like I said, and I just tested it, Temari's first skill doesn't deactivate it. Just tested it, it's her linear lift that does it.

You: Kaguya = imba, should remained banned as an item.
Me: Its not imba

Approved! Nice combo with Gaara and Lee!

perfect build need more builds like this