[SM] Killer Bee by GodScream

I felt sad about not posting suggestions when Chemist and Westfield are active so I made that Killer Bee as Carry. Enjoy and feel free to C&C : I will add the changes to changelog as usual.

Change Log::
-changed ink clones by lowering numbers of clones summoned and make it as target ennemy
-took out Purge, increased AS gained for 4 seconds
-Changed clone attacks as Agility related, changed the way clones slows+ silence, lowered numbers of clones summoned.
-Ultimate stun for 0.5 second, have castime reduced to 0.3seconds, added a collision damage effect based on range dash before hitting the 1st ennemy heroe.
-Increased the chances at each attacks in Passive, Increased max stack.
-added chemist Bee builds fixed in his own way below this suggestion ^^

Quote :

Name: Killer Bee
Alias: Hachibi's Jinchuriki
Role: Carry
Sub-Role: Ganker

"I float… like a butterfly. And sting like a bee! 'Cause I'm the Eight-Tails!"

Quote :

Don't you get ?Why am i not in nwu yet ?

Stats:
Damage: 49-56
Range: Melee attacks
Armor: 3
Move Speed: 305

Attributes:
Strength: 19 + 2
Agility: 24 +2.7
Intelligence: 16 + 1.8

Quote :

Supervibrato Lightning Release Swords
Flavor Text: Killer Bee uses distinctive swords which have characteristic shape making them ideal for cutting, using either edge of the blade. Bee often channels his lightning-natured chakra into their blade, increasing its vibrating frequency and hence its piercing and cutting power,

Spell Type: Active
Targets: Self



Mana Cost: 40/50/60/70
Cooldown: 7 seconds
Radius: N/A
Range: N/A
Cast Time: 0.0
Required Level: 1/3/5/7

Spell Description : On his next 2/3/4/5 hits, Bee will lower ennemy armor by 1 for 4seconds for each hit (stackacle). Killer Bee also gains 75/100/125/150% AS for 4 seconds .

Quote :

Sealing Technique: Octopus Hold
Flavor Text: Using the ink generating ability granted by the Eight-Tails, Killer B spews out a number of ink clones of himself, which proceed to attack the enemy. These clones then physically restrain each of the intended targets using an individual octopus hold, before engulfing the enemy's body in ink and hardening.

Spell Type: Active
Targets: Ennemy Unit




Mana Cost: 100/115/130/145
Cooldown: 14 seconds
Range: N/A
AOE: N/A
Damage: Clone deals 80% Bee's Agility damage and lasts for 14 seconds
Cast Time: 0 seconds
Type: Spell
Required Level: 1/3/5/7

Activation: Killer Bee release 1/2/3/4 ink clones around him. Clones will automaticaly rush at Bee's MS on the ennemy unit targeted.

When an ink clone reach the ennemy, He will attack this heroe dealing 80% Bee's Agility, slowing him for 30% and silencing him for 1 seconds (can stacks) and disappear on his 1st attack.

The clones can't be controlled and takes 400% damage from ennemies. If the ennemy targeted is dead or invulnerable, the clones will attack whoever on their sight.

Quote :

[Passive] Seven Swords Dance
Flavor Text: Killer Bee is extremely skilled with his blades. He can spin in a manner similar to a buzz-saw, or else employing a series of unrelenting attacks switching the locations as well as the blades with which he attack, leaving no openings.

Spell Type: Passive
Targets: All



Mana Cost: None
Cooldown: N/A
Radius: N/A
Range: N/A
Cast Time: N/A
Required Level: 1/3/5/7

Effect: Everytime Bee attacks an ennemy, he will have 2/3/4/5% stacking chance to deal double damage and the ennemy hitted will have 2/3/4/5% stacking chance to miss his attacks for the next 10 seconds .
This effect can stacks up to 20/25/30/35%.

Quote :

Lariat
Flavor Text: The user charges at his opponent, striking them with a Lariat move, which can be coated in chakra. A successful strike can blow away a target's entire chest with a direct hit. The attack is rather straightforward, but very quick and powerful.

Spell Type: Active
Target: Ground



Mana Cost: 150/180/210
Cooldown: 60/45/30 seconds
Duration N/A
Damage:
Range: 500/700/900
Cast Time: 0.3 seconds
Type: Spell
Required Level:6/11/16

Activation:
Killer Bee will dash to a ground target after 0.3 seconds cast time with a max 500/700/900 range units.

The first ennemy heroe in his path when Bee is dashing will take a total of 1 physical damage for every 2 range unit Bee has been dashing until reaching him AND will be taken/dragged with Bee until he reaches target ground.

Therefore, this ennemy heroe will take 1 physical damage for every 3 range unit he's travelling with Bee.

When reaching ground target, The ennemy dragged will be stunned for 0.5 second and Bee will gain +15/25/35 Agility for 10 seconds.

BONUS: Chemist Suggestion based on this Bee

Cut Chemist wrote:

Spoiler:

You want it to be a hard carry? Well that looks completely different.

Spoiler:

1st: personaly i dont like spells which have a lot of effects on them, this spell slows MS, boosts your AS and lowers armor, i think you should concentrate on 2 effects per skill maximum...purge is also 4 seconds yes? as far as i can remember purge slows quite a lot, and 4 seconds on the first level with such a low cd might be a bit op in regards to teamwork don't you think?

2nd: cant recall Bee using ink clones, but w/e...i can see it will deal loads of damage for single targets in conjuction with his first's skill which lowers MS. i would reduce the number of clones somehow

3rd: i think this spell is very underpowered, i would make it a bit similar to Axe's passive from Dota where each time an enemy unit is near him in X AoE, he will suffer damage or in your case something similar i dont know which can be stacked up or something

4th: i dont get how much damage is that? still theres way too many effects: charging in, damage, stun and a slight AoE disable, plus an Agility boost. i would remove the last part thouigh...

Agility is highlighted and his ulti gives him bonus agility, so I'm guessing that is his primary attribute, despite what you wrote on the topic. Anyway...

#1. As West said too many effects, either -armor or + attack speed. Purge is generally a supportive spell and adding it to a carry type hero can lead to them being OP. And if you're going to make the effect bonus attack speed, make it much higher like with Scout, PA, or Solstice (dota/hon heroes that have a +X% attack speed for Y strikes).

#2. Should make their damage static and make it so a single target can only be hit by like 3 or 4 clones maximum. Overall, I don't like this spell on a carry hero.

#3. Uh... the stacking concept is okay at level 1, but beyond that isn't going to work. 2% per hit and it stacks up to 15 / 20 / 25% requires a target to be hit way too many times.

#4. Remove stun. If I am correct the spell deals 250 / 350 / 450 physical damage, at max range, it's okay.

This suggestion need to be polished and will shine into my eyes.

1. Not gonna point the obius, just keep the as bonus and maybe the armor reduction, but increase the duration, hits and buff the effects.

This skill will work perfecly with your 3rd.

2. Taking out the part of the dmg, this skill looks kinda supportish rather than gankish or carryish, rework this skill completly.

3. The skill is good, but as stick said the stack are low, buff that.

Btw, would prefer seeing skill on each stack increase the crit i mean whe are talking about some kind of 7 hits. So seven stacks to achive the maximun potential of the skill. Something like 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2.0/2.1/2.2 crit

4. just remove the stun the skill is good enough by itself

1/I know : i was woundering myself also on 3 effects for that spell. But, purge doesn't have effect for 4 seconds ^^ only a purge like c smasher but with faster recover (after 1 second, i put).
For the other effects, i volontarily added a LOW % AS (it's 30% max) coz of the others effect + the armor reduction is here so the auto attacks can be dealt higher.
Actually, it's bit like kimi 1st skill but instead stun + higher damage + fast 3 hits, it's purge + Armor reduction + bit AS.

2/Bee used ink clones while trying to seal the edo tensei jinchurikis before they go into their mini bijuu mode

Spoiler:

I changed the random effect to target ennemies, gave a static attack and lowered their number. It's not only a slowing/disabling skill but also an evasion skill which allows Bee to confuse ennemies when attacking or when running away (target ennemy creep away from fight then all clones go attack it, Bee just have to folow them)

3/I thought up that it would be too op and easy giving instantly 25% double damage AND evasion, that's why the gradual hits are here + it is in synergy with the 1st skill + 2nd skill which purge or slow ennemies, giving Bee much time to hits them.
EDIT: i highered the % at each hit

Remember that it's the perfect counter carrry (evasion + double damage)

4/Agility boost is an important fact, allowing Bee to finish his ennemy. I reduced stun duration.
For the effect, it's like a sakon rush but at 900 max range and as a dash.
For the damage, IF you can gets an ennemy heroe in the dash path, the longer range he gets smashed in, the more damage you deal.
There's no AOE disable, and you have long castime which requires much timing if you wanna take the ennemy with you... though i gave a low CD to make him more dangerous

superman ?

Again...

#1. Choose one effect armor or purge. I remind you that Purge is an incredibly powerful effect in all AoS games, given the number of unts that rely upon buffs.

#2. STATIC NUMBERS, not scaling.

#3. Still too low, for a melee hero.

#4. Remove the agility, add attack speed and add a caviant stating that if a hero dies within 1.5 seconds after getting hit by this spell the attack speed bonus increases by an additional 50%

1/ Kimi = 3 mega fast hits + % higher damage + 1sec stun with lower cd than this 1st skill ^^ I think I should keep this spell the way it is

2/ Errr what do you mean by static? xD
Btw, I still hesitate if i should gave control on the clones...
@ Natsu, if you have another idea suiting in this synergy than those clones, tell me ^^

3/Improved numbers

4/I will keep the AGI but i don't agree on a bonus if a heroe gets killed after it. This ulti has for main purpose to take out the targeted heroe from the main ennemy group so Bee can finish him off with or without his team OR to chase a guy running away. It's not really a finishing move, but that can also be an initiator move.
That move also allows Bee to gank so i decided to give him back 1sec stun.

Remember, if Bee only hits the ennemy heroe near the ground target from far away (in a classic gank for exemple), he won't deal much damage since he didn't drag the heroe for a long distance.

GodScream wrote:

1/ Kimi = 3 mega fast hits + % higher damage + 1sec stun with lower cd than this 1st skill ^^ I think I should keep this spell the way it is

2/ Errr what do you mean by static? xD
Btw, I still hesitate if i should gave control on the clones...
@ Natsu, if you have another idea suiting in this synergy than those clones, tell me ^^

3/Improved numbers

4/I will keep the AGI but i don't agree on a bonus if a heroe gets killed after it. This ulti has for main purpose to take out the targeted heroe from the main ennemy group so Bee can finish him off with or without his team OR to chase a guy running away. It's not really a finishing move, but that can also be an initiator move.
That move also allows Bee to gank so i decided to give him back 1sec stun.

Remember, if Bee only hits the ennemy heroe near the ground target from far away (in a classic gank for exemple), he won't deal much damage since he didn't drag the heroe for a long distance.

1. Sorry godscream but i have to agree with stick. Your 1st skill is just so strong, i know kimi get good bonuses from that kind of skill and 3 effects that only buff him to finish off one enemy.

In your skill case are bonuses that rise up the team advantages over one target. With this i mean that you can remove a possitive buff from the enemy reduce their armor for your team to clean out that unit faster, thats why we told you to remove one of those. But the one i recomend is the purge because you wont get as much effectivenes as much you can get with the armor reduction.

2. He means that the clones need a pre set damage, not one that can scale depeding on your damage. Because it can turn really op if you get a lot of good damage and the damage of your clone will rise at the same time you rise yours

So in this case imagine if 4 clones with 50% of your damage hit one target, that would be to much.

I will prefer a a thing that could slow and silence the enemys at the same time, for ganking purposes and remembering how bee wanted to seal the jinjurikis on that fight with his ink clones.

3. Nothing to say

4. He dont need to initiate, he is a carry why would he initiate if his team can have a real initiator.

GodScream wrote:

4/I will keep the AGI but i don't agree on a bonus if a heroe gets killed after it. This ulti has for main purpose to take out the targeted heroe from the main enemy group so Bee can finish him off with or without his team OR to chase a guy running away. It's not really a finishing move, but that can also be an initiator move.

Remember, if Bee only hits the enemy hero near the ground target from far away (in a classic gank for exemple), he won't deal much damage since he didn't drag the hero for a long distance.

Your hero isn't an initiator and is actually more of a mid game carry with ganking potential.

1/ Took out purge, the slow effect will be assigned to the clones then ^^

2/Instead of a pre set damage (bad lategame) or an attacks related damage (too op), i thought up to Agility related damage since this is a carry which need to be good late game though damage begin game is low (+ it makes synergy with ulti)

3/No changes

4/I didnt really means as initiator but as mid fight finisher, yup sry.
Or the damage dealt can be changed so that the more distance Bee travels before hitting the ennemy and dragging him, the more damage he will dealt + or - the actual effect...
That will put that ulti looking more like ganker ulti.
I didnt change it for now, but what do you think about it?

About surviving skill, ulti with low cd can be used as surviving skill for running away^^

Stats are currently resembling an Agi hard carry, unless you want that change them accordingly.

#1. Scale the CD and again... why the stacking? Why not just make it so the spell lowers an enemy's armor and increases Bee's attack speed for the next Y attacks? That would be so much simpler and more reasonable when it comes to ganking.

#2. You really don't need to make the damage scaling. The slow is strong and the spell can silence people, it doesn't need to have scaling damage as well.

#3. I still don't see why the passive can't just be like this: Killer Bee gains A/B/C/D% chance to deal double damage after hitting an enemy; Killer Bee gains a E% chance to dodge an attack from the afflicted enemy.

#4. After 0.8 seconds cast time is way too long, if your intent is to make it a short of dash spell, it should be around 0.30ish. Again, the adding agility part is just needless It's a physical damage nuke, the hero shouldn't need over 3k gold worth of agility added on to the spell.

1/The stacking is here so it can be less Op with the AS bonus + low cd

2/The spell slows, silence and deal AGI related damage indeeed but clones can be stunned, slowed and destroyed like ono clones at 1st level (400% damage taken from attacks, magical or physical, 1 single nuke breaks the entire spell )

3/ If you do like that, it would be exactly Gai passive but with an evasion bonus : Would be to unbalanced between the 2 spells (btw, Bee's doesn't gain evasion or it would bee too op. It's the ennemy hitted who has less accuracy in hits).

I wouldn't give that stacking for 10sec at each hit if it deals double damage AND lowering ennemy accuracy...

4/Again, Agility is here to increase carry potential. I made that ulti not as a finishing move but as a ganking and dragging move. But i will reduced the casttime to 0.3second since 0.8 quite long.
Since you gave no C&C on collision damage, i added that effect to ulti to make it more like ganking spell with damage.

GodScream wrote:

1/The stacking is here so it can be less Op with the AS bonus + low cd

2/The spell slows, silence and deal AGI related damage indeeed but clones can be stunned, slowed and destroyed like ono clones at 1st level (400% damage taken from attacks, magical or physical, 1 single nuke breaks the entire spell )

3/ If you do like that, it would be exactly Gai passive but with an evasion bonus : Would be to unbalanced between the 2 spells (btw, Bee's doesn't gain evasion or it would bee too op. It's the enemy hit who has less accuracy in hits).

I wouldn't give that stacking for 10sec at each hit if it deals double damage AND lowering ennemy accuracy...

4/Again, Agility is here to increase carry potential. I made that ulti not as a finishing move but as a ganking and dragging move. But i will reduced the casttime to 0.3second since 0.8 quite long.

Since you gave no C&C on collision damage, i added that effect to ulti to make it more like ganking spell with damage.

#1. No, it is just bad design. If the hero is meant to do something other than rice it should be an instant effect.

#2. So what? The solution in that case is to either scale the damage taken by the clones or just reduce their damage taken by spells by X% or something. Not to make their damage scale...

#3. So, what you're saying is you made a less effective version of Gai's passive. Interesting, but as I said in my post it's when Bee hits the enemy, triggering the debuff, that affected enemy has a lesser chance to hit Bee and Bee's attacks have a Y% to deal double damage, or w/e crit value you want to add. I didn't say Bee would gain evasion...

#4. He doesn't need it. Period. You want to make it a ganking spell than make it do something more offensively, instead of giving him bonus agility. The damage taken while a unit is being dragged with Bee shouldn't be equal to the damage dealt once Bee reaches the area, it should be half.

1/ I prefer to let that like that and not turning into a mix of Oro kusa strike + Juugo bonus AS ^^

2/To fit his carry role and make the clones more dangerous but with more risks using it ^^ I can lower down the damage reduction if ya want for a static damage but it will be less interesting and funny to play

3/Nah m saying i don't want to make a MORE effective passive than Gai (since i added a less accuracy effect on ennemy) if i applied your spell. And i don't wanna give a classic and traditionnal chance to double damage hit (again like Gai's passive).
The stacking effect for 10 seconds stays like that AND it has synergy with 1st skill which allows extra AS that will allows Bee to have max stacking chance in a few seconds to do deal double damage and confuse ennemy's attacks.

4/ Again, i say that it's not a finishing, ksing move but a ganking move. I won't give more damage to that ulti for taking out the ability for Bee to gain more auto attacks bonus opportunities.
Though, like ya said, reducing the damage dealt when dragging is better. I reduced to 1 damage for 3 range units dragged.


PS: you said "evasion" in latest post and not "chance to dodge an attack from the afflicted enemy." Now, You just edited that mistake I saw it and Natsu/Muzk can probably see which time was the last edit of that post ^^

GodScream wrote:

1/ I prefer to let that like that and not turning into a mix of Oro kusa strike + Juugo bonus AS ^^

2/To fit his carry role and make the clones more dangerous but with more risks using it ^^ I can lower down the damage reduction if ya want for a static damage but it will be less interesting and funny to play

3/Nah m saying i don't want to make a MORE effective passive than Gai (since i added a less accuracy effect on ennemy) if i applied your spell.

4/ Again, i say that it's not a finishing, ksing move but a ganking move. I won't give more damage to that ulti for taking out the ability for Bee to gain more auto attacks bonus opportunities.
Though, like ya said, reducing the damage dealt when dragging is better. I reduced to 1 damage for 3 range units dragged.


PS: you said "evasion" in latest post and not "chance to dodge an attack from the afflicted enemy." Now, You just edited that mistake I saw it and Natsu/Muzk can probably see which time was the last edit of that post ^^

#1. Still is bad, multiple stacking debuffs on a hero that requires ~5 seconds or more, without being stunned, slowed, etc. to even max stacks.

#2. He's not a carry, I've told you this about 100 times.

#3. Why are you purposefully making a weak spell? Additionally, you don't have to make it double damage, it can be literally anything that works in a similar capacity of dealing burst physical damage.

#4. Why the fuck do you keep saying not a finishing move? I've said multiple times it is clearly a ganking spell. Adding more damage to it won't make the spell imbalanced, the fact that Bee gains agility is imbalanced. Gankers shouldn't have spells that not only deal a good amount of burst damage, but randomly increase their primary attribute, just so they can deal more auto attack damage.

PS: I edited my post earlier today, before you even posted a response, to include the part about a % chance to deal double damage.

Quote :

Killer Bee gains a E% chance to dodge an attack from the afflicted enemy.

That is not Killer Bee gains evasion, that is Killer bee is less likely to be hit by the target with the debuff applied to them.

Btw, i made him as carry oO and spells described are supposed to make him carry

Thats why he has bonus AS in 1st skill, that's why i gave him bonus AGI in ulti, that's why i gave him a passive based on auto-attacks (stacks for 10 seconds with having max 35% double damage AND makes ennemy miss their hits. 10seconds already is quite a long duration), that's why i gave him clone attacks based on AGI, that's why i gave low cd on 1st skill so he can freely use it to UP his AS and auto attacks.


The multiple stacking debuffs are here coz hes carry. The slow clones + 60% max AS can help him to max stacks BUT as carry, he needs support who can stun+slow ennemies for him too.

Im focusing since beginning to up the attack rate + auto attacks + attack damage.

Eol wrote:

Heroes who fill the role of Hard Carry generally have abilities that allow them to excel late-game, more so than any other hero type. They generally have abilities that relate to their attack damage. They typically fill the role of late game damage dealers, and their primary method of dealing damage at this stage of the game is via regular auto-attacks. Hard Carries should be relatively weak early in the game.

GodScream wrote:

Btw, i made him as carry oO and spells described are supposed to make him carry

Thats why he has bonus AS in 1st skill, that's why i gave him bonus AGI in ulti, that's why i gave him a passive based on auto-attacks (stacks for 10 seconds with having max 35% double damage AND makes enemy miss their hits. 10s econds already is quite a long duration), that's why i gave him clone attacks based on AGI, that's why i gave low cd on 1st skill so he can freely use it to UP his AS and auto attacks.


The multiple stacking debuffs are here coz hes carry. The slow clones + 60% max AS can help him to max stacks BUT as carry, he needs support who can stun+slow ennemies for him too.

Im focusing since beginning to up the attack rate + auto attacks + attack damage.

Your hero is not a hard carry, if you want him to be a hard carry rework the build to make him far weaker in the early to mid game. It has too much killing potential in the early to mid game, yet relatively weak steroid spells to be a hard carry. It's role, right now, is a ganker/semi-carry, and the semi-carry part means that it does okay in the mid-game and falls off in the late game. He possesses ganking/initiating spells, and applies way too many debuffs to be one. Having an IAS spell doesn't make a hero a hard carry, otherwise Lina in Dota would be a hard carry. Also, your W spell's bonus attack speed is far too weak to qualify as a hard carry spell.

The fact that you add agility to a spell that already can deal 450 physical damage is a bad sign concerning the validity of the build. If anything the ultimate's damage should be both higher at max level because it deals physical damage and is a skill-shot. There is no reason for the spell to give him bonus agility,other than some deluded thought that in order to succeed the build needs more agility. The hero's build should be about the spells, not auto attacks.


Your hero should be something like this, unless you make serious changes to make him a hard carry.

Spoiler:

You want it to be a hard carry? Well that looks completely different.

Spoiler:

Im adding ur suggestion in the 1st post for another ways to build that Bee

GodScream wrote:

Im adding ur suggestion in the 1st post for another ways to build that Bee

Thats nice!! I wanna see the result

muzk wrote:

GodScream wrote:

Im adding ur suggestion in the 1st post for another ways to build that Bee

Thats nice!! I wanna see the result

You're the dream maker Muzk ^^ Coding Wc3 maps is too hard for me